US Democrats are so enamored with the idea that Trump is “distracting” because a fundamental pillar of US liberalism is that nothing real can ever happen. It’s just not allowed. So when real things do happen, like a fascist takeover and military occupation of the US capital, they can only conceive of it in terms of messaging, of signs and symbols.

The real world ended in 1992, after the Soviet Union collapsed and Bill Clinton became President and neoliberalism settled in as The End of History.

The first real thing that will ever happen to many of these people will be their own deaths.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/dem-strategists-urged-party-trump-military-takeover-1235415635/

Dems’ Messaging Nerds Urged Party Not to Talk About Trump’s Military Takeover

Democrats’ favorite research firm told Democrats to avoid discussing Trump’s “rising authoritarianism” and focus on tariffs instead.

Rolling Stone
@HeavenlyPossum @thomasjwebb What exactly do you think people should be doing that they aren’t? I see so many takes like this and they never say anything useful. Do you mean violence? Is there something besides voting, protesting, preparing, protecting, suing, supporting allies, etc. that I am failing to do as a US democrat that can make a difference?

@vonnieda @HeavenlyPossum @thomasjwebb I hope the responses to this show you the types of clowns you will encounter on Kolektiva. I’m not sure if it’s a Russian troll farm, the biggest collection of idiots this side of a Trump rally, or a combination of both.

They tell people not to vote… then when that leads to fascists taking power, they say violence is the only solution. Self-fulfilling prophecy from keyboard warriors that will never take up arms in a rebellion of any kind. An absolute clown show, and not the funny kind of clowns.

@mls14 @vonnieda @HeavenlyPossum “violence is the only solution” said no one in this thread. The op is criticizing the “voting is the only solution” contingent.
@thomasjwebb @vonnieda @HeavenlyPossum “buy guns” was the post. You’re ascribing imagined nuance where none exists.
HeavenlyPossum (@[email protected])

US Democrats are so enamored with the idea that Trump is “distracting” because a fundamental pillar of US liberalism is that nothing real can ever happen. It’s just not allowed. So when real things do happen, like a fascist takeover and military occupation of the US capital, they can only conceive of it in terms of messaging, of signs and symbols. The real world ended in 1992, after the Soviet Union collapsed and Bill Clinton became President and neoliberalism settled in as The End of History. The first real thing that will ever happen to many of these people will be their own deaths. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/dem-strategists-urged-party-trump-military-takeover-1235415635/

kolektiva.social
@thomasjwebb @vonnieda @HeavenlyPossum Scroll the thread. You will see the post I’m talking about. It’s from the OP, it’s only two words, and a response to somebody asking what the OP’s solution to this problem is. Don’t gaslight when people can literally read the thread and see that you’re lying.

@vonnieda @thomasjwebb @mls14

I didn’t say that buying guns was a solution to the fascist takeover of the US. That’s a problem that’s wildly outside the scope of individual action to solve. Someone asked me what they should do and I answered, wisely and correctly, that they should buy guns.

Maybe you should try reading what I actually wrote before misportraying my words and accusing other people of gaslighting.

@HeavenlyPossum @vonnieda @thomasjwebb @mls14 Buying guns is extremely unwise. The risk of death by gun violence increases massively when somebody in your household owns one.

I oppose anybody who tells others to buy guns.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/debunking-the-guns-make-us-safer-myth/

Debunking the ‘Guns Make Us Safer’ Myth

Despite arguments from the gun lobby and its allies, guns used for self-defense are not common, beneficial for society, or efficient in deterring mass shootings or criminal victimization.

Center for American Progress

@vonnieda @thomasjwebb @mls14

The risk of death by gun violence when fascists take over your country is pretty high too, whether you have a gun or not.

@HeavenlyPossum @vonnieda @mls14 guns aren't for everyone. This article is addressing different points than were made here. Key things to consider:

A) arithmetic fallacy
B) the dynamic world

Throwing all guns, people and deaths into a bucket and saying things about the bucket gives us important info but can't speak to your situation. Self-harm is contingent on your mental state. Safety is contingent on your measures such as safes and regular training.

@thomasjwebb @HeavenlyPossum @vonnieda Having a gun in your home substantially increases your risk of death from a gun. People with guns are at higher risk of being harmed by a gun than those without guns.

That’s why I know those pushing for people to “buy guns” do not care about others’ well-being.

It’s a smart-ass response from people that gave up on the idea of self-government and think everybody else should too. Sorry, but the adults in the room are CURRENTLY working on ways to solve this without violence. And the Kolektiva Keyboard Klowns (KKK for short?) are cowering and clowning telling others to buy guns while they sit back and hope to pleasure themselves watching the ensuing violence.

@mls14 @HeavenlyPossum @vonnieda none of your responses indicate that you've read anything anyone here has actually written but instead are just mad at some guy you made up in your head.

@thomasjwebb @HeavenlyPossum @vonnieda I really do wish that “buy guns” in response to “what should Democrats do?” was made up in my head. I really do. But there are actual people in the world typing that nonsense into their computer and posting it for everybody to read. And others are defending it.

This is the crappy world I live in; believe me, the imaginary world in my head doesn’t have anything like this in it.

@HeavenlyPossum @vonnieda @mls14 I really wished that all you did was honestly register your distaste about mere mention of self-defense instead of making up a story - wholly from your head - that this constitutes “giving up” on any other means of resistance, a claim you repeatedly made and never honestly tried to defend. Reasonable people can have honest disagreements about the specifics of resistance. Unfortunately you’re not being honest.

@thomasjwebb @HeavenlyPossum @vonnieda Heavenly Possum is not being honest. They don’t live in the US. But they are telling Americans to buy more guns and shoot each other.

This is not acceptable behavior, period. Nobody should be defending this person, who is probably on Putin’s payroll and posting from somewhere in Russia.

@thomasjwebb @vonnieda @mls14

I didn’t tell anyone to shoot anyone. I suggested my interlocutor buy guns and learn how to safely handle and discharge them.

@HeavenlyPossum @vonnieda @mls14 "But they are telling Americans to buy more guns and shoot each other."
"this person, who is probably on Putin’s payroll"

Once again this person is just absolutely making shit up. All he can do is reply to points that were never even made, not even implied in the thread. Again, making up someone in his head and getting mad at them. Maybe the fact that no one's swooping down to safe us upsets him so much that he distracts himself from the horror by lashing out.

@HeavenlyPossum @vonnieda @mls14 a common thing I see though is people conflating self-defense and violent escalation. Like one can lead to another. That's what I don't like about open carry and most of the US's gun culture. But it's a whole other thing to pretend that someone who called for one thing called for the other thing. But these people who believe that Dems will swoop in can't fathom how much self-defense (armed or not) is an unavoidable part of even non-violent resistance.

@thomasjwebb @HeavenlyPossum @vonnieda @mls14

You're recognizing some very insidious and significant patterns here-- the unruly leftist strawman is a stereotyped scapegoat they've villainized very thoroughly, it's what they expect and what they tend to see and hear no matter WHAT we actually do or say.

Anytime we point out corruption in electoralism for instance, they tend to jump straight to "how dare you (tell people to) not vote!" even if we never actually said that or even explicitly noted otherwise.

Another example, when we point out how nasty the fascism is they react as if we just gave a treatise promoting defeatism-- even if we're advocating enthusiastic struggle, there's this bizarrely persistent assumption we want everyone to give up, because that's the story they've been sold about us.

So a lot of these debates are marked very distinctly by moments of them shouting "aha I knew it, you XX and YY!" and us saying "uhhhh nobody here said that" and them carrying on regardless as if our posts are going through some kind of funhouse filter.