That's 5D-educational chess.

#FuckGenAI #ChatGPT #GenAIsucksCamelDong

@Eatsbluecrayon Another demonstration would be to bring a chessboard to class, along with extra pieces, and have the class play chess with an AI of their choosing. They’ll get to watch with their own eyes as the AI fabricates positions and pieces.

This is especially useful because computers have been beating human opponents at chess for a long time now, so people know that chess is something computers can do. That an AI can’t indicates it is worse than its predecessors.

@WhiteCatTamer @Eatsbluecrayon that's cause it's not an AI, but a really fancy autocorrect. DeepBlue and the like were probability machines using complex computational algorithms and ChatGPT just strings words together that make some kind of grammatical sense, in which grammer =! logic. The mistake that people are falling for is the thought that language is mathematical. It is not. Language is culture, which cannot be summed up through math and numbers. Culture is the synthesis of human emotion and connection. No machine can replicate that. Ever.

@jadedtwin @WhiteCatTamer @Eatsbluecrayon

> that's cause it's not an AI, but a really fancy autocorrect.

That is a little annoying

Go to DeepSeek 's web page, https://chat.deepseek.com/, turn on the "deep think" toggle, enter a query and watch it's internal process laid out explicitly

The LLMs and Transformers at the core are implementing a "stochastic parrot" (but what am I. What are you?) but the end result is ( machine) intelligence. That is the best term for it.

@worik @jadedtwin @WhiteCatTamer @Eatsbluecrayon

LLMs are not "fancy autocorrect" but they ARE fancy autocomplete. Most of their training is just any kind of text that makes sense, and only on the final stages of training you feed it conversations between "user" and "assistant", to specialize it in following instructions. The illusion of a personality disappears as soon as you're allowed to request the LLM to keep completing the text: after autocompleting the answer of the "assistant" it starts autocompleting the message of the "user". LLMs are impersonation machines, it's just that in most cases they're made to impersonate the "assistant" side. When I have access to the raw text autocompletion of a LLM I have a bit of fun seeing what it autocompletes as the user, or how it autocompletes a conversation that is not a user-assistant conversation. For me it demystifies this magic thinking that people have about LLMs.

The "thinking" that some LLMs do is just an extension of a technique called "chain of thought", to make it have more information in the context and to be able to resolve contradictions. It doesn't need to be a "thought" in the same language or even in natural language at all, it works just as well if it appears as random symbols to us. It's just that deepseek trained it to be readable. It's not real thinking. It works better than without it, certainly, but real thinking would involve much more than just generating a bunch of stuff to improve the quality of next generations. Actual thinking involves abstract non-verbal thought as well as being able to learn from experience (even from just one single experience).

The only way LLMs learn nowadays is by "training" on a lot of data so it eventually recognizes patterns, and you can't just train it on one conversation to make it learn, it doesn't work like that.

@starsider @jadedtwin @WhiteCatTamer @Eatsbluecrayon

That is nonsense.

Define thought. I challenge you!

The insight from (I think) seventy five years ago by Turing is that we do not know what intelligence is but we know it when we see it

These machines are exhibiting intelligence. If so, then so.

@worik @jadedtwin @WhiteCatTamer @Eatsbluecrayon

Thought refers to the mental processes involved in cognition, reasoning, imagination, memory, and planning. It includes both the conscious and subconscious mental activities that allow individuals to interpret, evaluate, and respond to their environment and experiences.

LLMs have a very narrow and limited version of this:

They don't have imagination, instead they "think" of something and deduce that something else is above or behind or inside, etc. Some multimodal models have something resembling imagination.

It doesn't have subconscious activity or inner abstract thought, although recurrent depth models (latent reasoning) kind of resembles abstract thought.

Memory is a hack: LLMs don't have recollection of previous conversations. Instead what some systems do to give it "memory" is to store chunked conversations in a vector database, and inject these chunks in the context when some vector seems relevant (when two embeddings have a short distance).

LLMs don't have environment and experience. They're fixed in a point of time given by their training and fine-tuning, but only after receiving a staggering amount of "environments" and "experiences" in text form.

LLMs are one piece of the puzzle to allow machines to think like a human, but they can't really think to learn, and currently they're extremely limited.

By conversing with a LLM you cannot teach it to, for instance, elaborate a mathematical proof. You can instead feed it a lot of mathematical proofs and it becomes better at making them or checking them, but they still fail much more than a human (it's been tried with a fine tune of R1). Because it doesn't come from its experiences. It doesn't come from them realizing their mistakes in one conversation to learn them in another conversation.

If they can't learn from experience, in my opinion that's not true thought. It's only part of it.

If it was not obvious by now, I'm really interested in how LLMs work and how to make thinking machines that can become individuals. But the current crop of LLMs ain't it. Also OpenAI and other corporations waste way too much energy and spam our servers, for goals that do not align with mine at all. I very much prefer to play with small LMs that run in my computer, without sending my private data to them.

That's another issue, they have staggering amounts of private data, and even if your terms of service promise that they won't be used for training (and assuming they keep the promise), your data is still very useful (for example for evaluation and validation of training batches) so they will keep it and they could still be leaked or sold in the future.

@starsider @jadedtwin @WhiteCatTamer @Eatsbluecrayon

> make thinking machines that can become individuals.

That is unnecessary for intelligence. What is necessary is the ability to exhibit intelligence, which these models do.

The ethics of how they are trained are woeful (Meta using pirated books FFS), misunderstandings about how they can be used are widespread, andoutright scams are everywhere, but they do exhibit intelligence

@starsider @jadedtwin @WhiteCatTamer @Eatsbluecrayon

> Thought refers to the mental processes involved in cognition, reasoning, imagination, memory, and planning.

That is unhelpful. But by that definition these things definitely have thoughts

Please do have a look where DeepSeek put therocess on display, it is right there on display.

When it comes to intelligence faking it is making it

@worik @jadedtwin @WhiteCatTamer @Eatsbluecrayon Dude, recently I tried to have deepseek solve a problem and it couldn't, it went in circles for a long time and then the answer was wrong. If it was truly intelligent and being capable of actual thought, I could tell it where it went wrong and it would be able to learn from it.

But do you know what happens when I send another message?

The LLM sees the previous messages, but it doesn't see the previous thinking blocks, to save context tokens.

Try to talk to it about things it mentions in its thinking blocks. You can't, because it literally doesn't have recollection of ever having any of those thoughts.

You can change the frontend to include all the thinking blocks, but in most cases it performs worse because the context is filled with fluff (and because all of the training data for fine tuning only ever has a single thinking block).

Before deepseek R1, and even before chatgpt o1 (the first version with "thinking"), I made a local LLM "think" by having a multi user conversation (basically several NPCs) and then turning one of the characters into the actual "assistant" and the other one into "assistant's thoughts". It's just lengthening the conversation with multiple argumentation lines so it can figure out the best one.

Is a chatroom "thoughts"? Is the person that talks the most what constitutes as "thinking"?