The destruction of Palestine is breaking the world

https://lemmings.world/post/29715829

The destruction of Palestine is breaking the world - Lemmings.world

Israel’s war in Gaza is chipping away at so much of what we – in the United States but also internationally – had agreed upon as acceptable, from the rules governing our freedom of speech to the very laws of armed conflict. It seems no exaggeration to say that the foundation of the international order of the last 77 years is threatened by this change in the obligations governing our legal and political responsibilities to each other.

Zionism is a destructive toxic ideology of fascistic bloodlust and racial supremacy. It is the true descendent of Nazi ideology.
Given that the Zionist movement was founded decades before the Nazi movement, I would say Nazis are the descendants.

Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine. Joining those two groups is ridiculous and rude to Jewish people.

The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution. That pissed off the local Arabs (understandably) and both of them started arguing—which was not usually violent until 1920-30ish.

That said, after it became a British Mandate (1917), Israel got a ton of international support. And obviously after WWII, they got whatever they wanted…. Which, was choosing violence.

A lot of the reason the Arabs got little support was because they were fragmented, with no leadership. Each of their revolts were seen as a threat and not a legitimate push back against colonization. And, after the Ottoman Empire fell, England and France “stole” that land, so revolts were more or less terrorism (in their eyes, of course).

The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution.

This is completely ignoring the boycott and parallel society angle. What Zionists did in pre-mandate Palestine was also forced expulsion of Palestinians; the forcing part was simply delegated to the state. Had they simply wanted to settle in Palestine nobody would've minded, but that was fundamentally not what the Zionist project was.

According to Israeli historian Benny Morris, Zionism was inherently expansionist and always had the goal of turning the entirety of Palestine into a Jewish state. In addition, Morris describes the Zionists as intent on politically and physically dispossessing the Arabs.

The World Zionist Organization established the Jewish National Fund (JNF) in 1901, with the stated goal "to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people." The notion of land "redemption" entailed that the land could not be sold and could not be leased to a non-Jew nor should the land be worked by Arabs.[145] The land purchased was primarily from absentee landlords, and upon purchase of the land, the tenant farmers who traditionally had rights of usufruct were often expelled.

-Wikipedia

Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine.

Nazism had a lot to do with the German people expanding their homeland to Eastern Europe and Russia and murdering the inhabitants. Starting to see the similarities now? Nazism and Zionism are sister ideologies, both fruits from the same rotten tree that is European settler colonialism.

Anyone could argue that “my people deserve this” is a similar ideology. That’s just false equivalence. You are cherry picking, and ignoring a whole lot of history and intention.

Has Israel moved towards a similar ideology? Yes. But to claim in started out with that intent is just angry jaw flapping.

Anyone could argue that “my people deserve this” is a similar ideology.

"My people deserve this land at the expense of its current inhabitants" is fascism, or at least the underpinning thereof, so you're not wrong there. Nazism, Zionism, Manifest Destiny, it is literally the same thing manifesting in different ways. Look up "blood and soil" and "Lebensraum". Ben Gurion is literally on record saying "we must remove the Arabs and take their place". The Nakba started before the founding of Israel. If you have an argument for how the Nakba was anything but fascism, let's hear it, but so far you're not saying anything of substance.

But to claim in started out with that intent is just angry jaw flapping.

Okay let's try this. Try this online quiz and see if you can get more than 15/21.

Zionism explained

What is Zionism?

It’s really easy to cherry pick similar statements from people and compare them and make a whole website. Anyone could do the exact opposite.

If you’re going to quote people, you need to use dates because as I have said before dates matter.

Ben Gurion's is 1937.

It’s really easy to cherry pick similar statements from people and compare them and make a whole website.

My dude non-fascists don't say "when we settle [region], [group] will have no choice but to scurry like drugged cockroaches" (dated 1983 btw). Also the site has dates and sources for the quotes; most Zionist quotes are recent but a few are from the 20th century with two from before WWI. They even have one by Herzl himself. Zionism was and continues to use and be predicated on downright Nazi antisemitic propaganda about how Jews can never live with non-Jews and how diaspora Jews are sickly and weak and all that shit. That's why they shit on Holocaust victims, for instance.

1937 Ben-Gurion letter - Wikipedia

1937 is how many years after 1897? Have I not been saying this entire time that the original idea was lost? Yes… pretty sure I did… yup checked I did.

My dude? Okay have a good day if you’re going to talk like that.

Well obviously if you define your "original idea" early enough there'll be nothing to criticize because they'll have done nothing yet. But fine. Is plain antisemitic propaganda in 1904 early enough for you? What about "a land without a people for a people without a land" in 1898?

“A Jew brought up among Germans may assume German custom, German words. He may be wholly imbued with that German fluid but the nucleus of his spiritual structure will always remain Jewish, because his blood, his body, his physical-racial type are Jewish. … It is impossible for a man to become assimilated with people whose blood is different from his own. In order to become assimilated, he must change his body, he must become one of them, in blood. … There can be no assimilation as long as there is no mixed marriage. … An increase in the number of mixed marriages is the only sure and infallible means for the destruction of nationality as such. … A preservation of national integrity is impossible except by a preservation of racial purity, and for that purpose we are in need of a territory of our own where our people will constitute the overwhelming majority.”

-Ze'ev Jabotinsky (né Vladimir Yevgenyevich Zhabotinsky), Revisionist Zionist leader who co-founded the Jewish Legion of the British Army in World War I, on June 06, 1904

‘National Judaism’ will make the ancient soil fertile. It seems miraculous. Everything natural is miraculous. Once the nation which we Zionists are arousing is fully awakened, things will happen swiftly and dynamically. Then the nation will behold its ancient land beautifully situated on the Mediterranean, with regions of cold, moderate and warm climate – a land suited for any kind of cultivation, with long-dormant natural resources.”

-Literally Theodor Herzl, 1896.

My dude, it’s over. Goodbye.

Goodbye, my dude

PS: I have literally never seen anyone complain about this before. Is this not normal internet English?

You don’t know that “my dude” means “fuck you you piece of shit”? I mean, are you 12 years old? I was saying “my dude” as an insult in 1998. Grow up.
I think you thought you offended some folks with an endearing phrase. My whole life I have heard it used and I’ve used it myself as a synonym of “friend” or otherwise respectable reference to someone. Quick online check agrees.
Zionists collaborated with Nazis to help them deport Jews to Palestine.
The split is between governments and the general public. I don’t know too many individuals who are ok with what is going on. And if they are, they are being awfully quiet about it.
You should go and read some daily mail comments on articles about the war (genocide). They’re a bunch of frothing murderous horrors.
Internet comments != real people

As someone who has to deal with real people at demonstrations regularly, these horrible genocidal sentiments are not just limited to internet trolls unfortunately.

Also as much as they are detached from the general population, all the politicians and Israel lobbyists and MIC lobbyists still are real people too.

The Jewish people of the world deserve apology from the government of isreal for using their suffering as a political tool in service of genocide.

In conflating politics and imperialism with lineage and race, the political movement of Zionism sows incalculable hatred into the world in the name of Judaism, so that they can reap it later, when Jewish people suffer as meat shields, as justification for expansionism, and forever-war. Down with this theocratic shell game.

The Palestinian people deserve a lot of apologies from a lot of assholes on the internet that have monetized their suffering.

And a lot of people in the Arab world deserve an apology from the Ayatollah of Iran for using them as meat shields in their failed attempt to wipe Israel off the map.

Is it? I don’t even hear anything out of the Arab states. It should but I don’t see much.
This war is of course a huge tragedy, but as someone who sees gaza war as a local conflict borderline affecting few cities, I can’t help but chuckle how much lemmy ignores the largest country in the world waging war in Europe and only escalating by every month, while western countries can’t seem to keep up in production. It’s Russia who will break the world, not some conflict in middle east.

Lol, calling Russia the largest country in the world is a strange way to increase the might of a faded superpower who can’t deploy an army to win against a country much smaller than them.

It is absolutely a big deal and most of Europe offers financial, military and humanitarian assistance above what you’ll see on Lemmy. The difference is the genocide in Palestine is war crime after war crime. Sure, Russia commits and has committed war crimes, but even they follow most of the rules of war. Israel is genocidal. It’s supported by their people. It’s abhorrent.

I think Israel is foolish. They are protected by their international support and not viable on their own. Trump is unpredictable and nationalistic. They could get left out in the cold, like USA did to Ukraine very easily. Netanyahu has is ear. As does Putin and the Saudis. In trumps case, it’ll be what he can get. Israel have less to offer while requiring the funding the others don’t.

I think Israel is foolish. They are protected by their international support and not viable on their own. Trump is unpredictable and nationalistic.

That’s weird logic. If we’re going with Trump being unpredictable, then it really doesn’t matter what Israel does in terms of maintaining support from Trump.

And countries don’t base foreign policy based on what teenagers on the internet want. They base it on interests. What has Israel done that goes against anyone’s national interests? Iran is a thorn in everyone’s side, and Hezbollah has been weakened and cut off from easy supply from Iran because Assad’s regime is gone. It’s not in anyone’s interest for Iran to have nuclear weapons, and Israel has proven their capability in taking out Iran’s air defenses. The Houthis are a problem for global trade and Trump isn’t going to hit them as long as they keep to their deal and not hit US shipping.

So given everyone’s interests most countries might wag their finger at Israel publicly for political reasons, but people in power know that if their people were taken hostage by terrorists, they’d do much the same thing as Israel has done. The US has become unreliable in dealing with the middle east (not really caring about Houthis attacking other country’s shipping) so they need an ally in the region to keep Iran and their proxies in check. And Israel has demonstrated a lot of capability in that regard. So do you think countries are going to isolate Israel for the sake of a small group of protesters constantly shouting insane slogans?

I mean that Israel depends on usa support. That could disappear on a whim.

War crimes and normalised genocide is a risk to all countries sovereignty.

You’re looking at the current layout of the middle east. It’s a constantly changing unstable environment. Iran going nuclear is in nobodies interest but Iran.

Not punishing Russia for invasion of Ukraine showed the world that if you don’t want to be subject to larger countries rule, you need nukes. Ukraine is the only country to voluntarily give them up. Look how that turned out. Israel has not signed the non proliferation treaty. All other signatory countries have an obligation to stop them too. Where was that will?

Israel won’t be isolated due to protests. Israel receives support as a vassal state to be useful in the middle east. USA is no longer dependent on the middle east. Europe less so, but still dependent. Israel is therefore less useful. So support will end eventually, irrespective of Israel’s actions. Israel might hasten that end with actions that are politically damaging for the politicians in countries that enable their genocide.

The only way Russia can win is if Trump bails them out. Which is a possibility, but that would just be Trump breaking things.

I’m pretty sure it’s just Trump breaking the world order and eroding the freedom of Americans.

When the Israel-Hamas war is over do you really think everything is going to go back to normal in the US and the rest of the world?

The complicity of many national governments in this genocide, including my own (Canada), will be remembered with disdain.
Read the article. The most egregious violations occurred during the Biden administration. Biden is better at Trump as a whole, but on the Gaza issue, both have support for Israel locked in at 100%. People often fall for the marketing - Biden virtue signals while Trump vice signals. Biden made a few token show gestures towards Palestinian rights, and Trump gleefully celebrates his cruelty. But in terms of actual tangible support for Israel? Trump’s record is a direct continuation of Biden’s. The Biden admin for example were the first ones to propose the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. That isn’t something Trump came up with - he just vice signaled with his stupid ‘Gaza riviera’ plan, while Biden’s plan for ethnic cleansing was discussed quietly.
When are we going to talk about African wars?
When the US starts being the primary funder of them.
There isn’t any difference between American arms and israeli arms
It’s actually China and Russia who’s funding them currently.
China and Russia are funding the anti “resistance“. It’s just a proxy war. Same exact thing the Afghanistan war was about
You’re beyond saving. You cannot even recognize why it matters if you’re participating in a genocide or not. A genocide is already happening, why not make a buck off of it? In a past life, you worked at IBM. There you sold computers to the Nazis to help them tabulate the Holocaust.
Don’t know who you intended to reply to, but I hope you find them!

If we consider UN as being the main arbitrator on who gets to launch a war, then to mention a few instances…

1950: North Korea illegally attacks South Korea.

1956: Soviet Union illegally invades Hungary.

1956: Israel / France / UK illegally invade Egypt. All invaders withdraw after UN condemnation and international pressure.

1964: USA illegally escalates Vietnam War.

1967: Israel launches the Six-Day War, illegality debated.

1968: Soviet Union illegally invades Czechoslovakia.

1973: Egypt and Syria attack Israel.

1974: Turkey illegally invades Cyprus.

1978: Vietnam illegally invades Cambodia.

1979: Soviet Union illegally invades Afghanistan.

1982: Israel illegally invades Libanon.

1983: USA illegally invades Grenada.

1989: USA illegally invades Panama.

1990: Iraq illegally invades Kuwait. Got their ass kicked though so that worked out fine.

1999: NATO illegally bombs Yugoslavia.

2003: US and UK illegally invade Iraq.

2008: Russia illegally invades Georgia.

2014: Russia illegally invades and annexes Crimea.

2015: Saudi-Arabia illegally invades Yemen.

2022: Russia illegally invades Ukraine.

I probably forgot a few. No ill meaning meant, just missing knowledge.

You really have to do whataboutism on every post concerning Israel.

1967: Israel launches the Six-Day War, illegality debated.

Nice how you question the illegality of Israel doing war crimes.

Previous poster was not questioning it but quoting the UN as the authority. britannica.com/…/United-Nations-Resolution-242
United Nations Resolution 242 (1967) | Definition, Land for Peace, Summary, & Facts | Britannica

United Nations resolution 242, UN Security Council resolution adopted in the wake of the Six-Day War (1967). It called for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from ‘territories occupied in the recent conflict’ and affirmed the right of every state in the region ‘to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.’

Encyclopedia Britannica

Resolution 242: On November 22, 1967, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 242

  • The “inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war.”

  • The need for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied during the conflict.

They attacked on a Monday, knowing that on Wednesday the Egyptian vice-president would arrive in Washington to talk about re-opening the Strait of Tiran. We might not have succeeded in getting Egypt to reopen the strait, but it was a real possibility.” -  Dean Rusk, the Secretary of State of that time

“The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.” -  Menachem Begin

So there was no eminent security risk, the attack was not proportional and Israel kept the west bank and east Jerusalem violating the need for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied during the conflict

your reading comprehension is below elementary school levels.