FundMECFSWelcome to the Labour police state
henfredemarsUS does police state better.
clockworkrat(he/him)Does it different. In the US the violence is more up front. Here it’s done through mechanisms of the state.
lumpenproletariatUS is Judge Dredd.
UK is 1984.
Apt considering the setting
Orwell was writing what he knew
Germany does it the best
In Germany we are at a point where it’s difficult to identity antisemitism became everyone who doesn’t actively support the genocide in Gaza is called an antisemite
Same as everywhere else
…in the western power block, a relatively small portion of the world(despite ridiculously appropriating the name ’ intenational community ') that now has another good reason to be hated by the rest of the world.
Meanwhile the AfD is the most popular party
They aren’t antisemites. They stand with Israel /s
The world is sad.
Have a good day nonetheless my friend <3
FedegenerateNot to defend Germany, but given their relative size of prison populations, and number of citizens extra judicially killed by law enforcement. The US is, measurably, the worse of the two.
Yes, it’s more sporadic in Germany, but because it’s less of a police state, they sometimes have to get creative. I don’t disagree that the US is measurably worse in basically all categories, but Germany’s not exactly good. It just goes to show that all cops are bastards.
ACAN - All Cops Are Nazis
da_cow (she/her)We did it the best from 1933-1945, but currently we are nowhere near the american police state.
The Brutal Reality of the German Police State! Shocking and Disgusting Police Brutality
ACAB. Doesn’t matter where or when in the world we’re discussing. ACAB is universal.
While this is true, there are still various degrees of how much the police is used as a tool of oppression and the shit we see in America is miles away from what we see in Germany.
I’d argue the Stazi were far more effective than the Gestapo.
Fair enough with the Stasi. I could see how why, but I Am not capable of comparing the effectiveness of both.
The Gestapo relied almost entirely on public informants. The Stasi had an extensive and qualitative surveillance apparatus.
i bet my police state could beat up your police state
Yes yes. We do a big police deathmatch between the US and UK. All the cops of both countries in one huge brawl. Whoever comes out alive gets the trophy and a twenty dollar gift card for a Fast Food restaurant of their choice.
SubArcticTundraIf the British side win they get a Club Card
inlandempireAlways have been a police state, anti terrorism laws are ALWAYS used to silence ‘dissident’ voices
From 5 July 2025, it is an offence under the UK’s Terrorism Act 2000 to be a member of Palestine Action,[7] fundraise for it,[8][9] wear or display items arousing reasonable suspicion of membership,[10] or if someone invites support or even “expresses an opinion or belief supportive of” Palestine Action “reckless as to whether a person to whom the expression is directed will be encouraged to support” it.[11] These offences carry a maximum penalty of up to 14 years in prison for membership or inviting support, and up to 6 months in prison or a fine for displaying supporting items.[7][10][11][9]
Is Palestine Action a specific movement/group or is palestine Action literally just supporting Palestine? Asking from a non UK perspective.
It’s a specific group that recently broke into an RAF base and started mucking about with the aircraft, hence why the government aren’t their biggest fans.
Ah, thanks for the info.
Their latest action was against the planes, but they have actually been extraordinarily successful at damaging the economic machine behind the genocide through targeted and sustained sabotage campaigns against Elbit Systems weapons manufacturer and their supporters, like Barclays Bank. They have already forced the closure of two weapons factories and forced Barclays to divest. It is most likely this sustained campaign that is the real reason for the terrorist designation, though the action at Brize Norton was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back.
It certainly made proscribing them an easy sell; you won’t find many people who think it’s unreasonable of the government to take a dim view of sabotage.
Hopefully it won’t distract too much from the bigger story of almost everyone apart from the government taking a dim view of genocide.
Sabotaging the tools of genocide should be supported by everyone who isn’t a monster.
/ air tankers, unrelated to any genocide
100 years from now, who would possibly doubt that PAC are the heroes here and labor are the villains? Genociders are never on the right side of history. These people are heroes.
It’s not even really a Labour issue, support for Israel has been a long standing policy (partly because the UK was largely responsible for the creation of Israel back in the 1920s) and the motion to proscribe Palestine Action was broadly supported by every party. Regardless of the morality it was completely obvious and expected that breaking into a military base and damaging expensive aircraft was going to have consequences.
Doesn’t mean it’s not the morally right thing to do. Aircraft that are being used to bomb innocent civilians should be vandalized. Hell that’s the minimum. The morally right thing to do is to set them on fire. Legality and morality are only weakly correlated. Obviously the law says what the powerful want it to say, but that doesn’t mean it’s right or just. Setting fire to a UK plane that is being used to genocide people is no different than setting fire to an empty train in 1944 that’s about to be sent out on a run to gather up people to take them to a concentration camp. Sorry, but that’s just the simple truth of it. You can cite evil laws you want, but you might as well be citing the laws of Nazi Germany. Everything they did was legal as well.
Some things are just wrong. And enabling them is wrong. And we shouldn’t be afraid to say that. The people who vandalized those planes did nothing wrong. They’re victorious heroes. We should be memorializing them in song and story. The laws of evil men are not even worthy of consideration, beyond the practical choices of those choosing to engage in such acts of bravery and heroism.
I haven’t cited any laws or said what they did was wrong, just that the government doesn’t like having its toys broken. Absolutely setting fire to a nazi train may be the morally correct thing to do, but you can still understand the nazis not being happy about it: these aren’t mutually exclusive propositions.
Aircraft that are being used to bomb innocent civilians should be vandalized.
These planes are not bombers, and carry no weapons.
Setting fire to a UK plane that is being used to genocide people
These planes are not being used for that in any capacity.
I look forward to your moving the goalposts.
Well don’t leave us in the dark. Why didn’t you bother explaining what the planes were actually used for? You’re clearly trying to portray the Palestine activists as cliche violent anarchists who destroyed government property for no rational reason. That is really the only reason you wouldn’t explain why you think they did what they did. Likely it’s something that’s still clearly genocidal, but you didn’t want to mention that so you could get that “moving the goalpost” zinger in.
So let’s actually look into this, as you failed to do so in order to muddy the waters.
Oh hey, they’re mid-air refuelers.
So we’re not talking bombers carrying out bombing runs, we’re talking about flying gas stations that top off the tanks of the fighters and bombers carrying out bombing runs. These war planes directly used to enable genocide.
Any sane person would call this “a distinction without a difference.” You didn’t bother explaining what they actually vandalized (really just painted) because you wanted to make it seem like they torched a random civilian airliner or something equally irrational.
But I guess this is just “moving the goalposts” in your warped reality. And in reality, I’m not even moving the goalposts. I said these planes were used to bomb Palestinians. And that’s exactly what these mid-air refuelers have been used for, even if they didn’t carry any bombs themselves. This is like arguing a loading truck that carries bombs from storage to the tarmac aren’t involved in bombing. Sure, it doesn’t directly drop a bomb, but it’s still used for bombing.
You just have myopia and think that only bombers are involved in bombing.
Pro-Palestinian activists charged with damaging planes at a UK air base are held in custody
Four pro-Palestinian protesters have been held in custody after appearing in a London courtroom over charges connected to an incident involving damage to Royal Air Force planes. The group allegedly sprayed red paint on the engines of two Voyager jets at RAF Brize Norton in June, and used fire extinguishers and crowbars to damage the planes. They are charged with conspiracy to commit criminal damage and entering a prohibited area with alleged terrorist connections. Palestine Action claims responsibility, stating their protests oppose support for Israel’s actions in Gaza. The U.K. government has since moved to classify the group as a terrorist organization.
I said these planes were used to bomb Palestinians. And that’s exactly what these mid-air refuelers have been used for, even if they didn’t carry any bombs themselves.
Verifiably false. The RAF has not been bombing Gaza. And before you bring it up, no, the RAF has not been refuelling Israeli planes either. The British use an entirely incompatible air-to-air refuelling system. And even if they magically didn’t, they wouldn’t be parking the planes in rural Oxfordshire.
Again then, please illuminate us. This is a pretty well organized group. They don’t just pick targets randomly. If you have all the answers, illuminate us on why these planes were targeted instead of just whining.
Indeed. If they are a well-organised group with rational people, it would seem odd and uncharacteristically incompetent that they managed to pick literally the most inappropriate target in the entire RAF inventory. Assuming their motives are as they say they are.
I ask you again. Why did they choose this plane? If your answer is, “lol, IDK, I guess they’re just dumb.” Then you’re probably missing something very critical. You haven’t even bothered to answer why they chose these planes. You just whine about it.
You didn’t disappoint. You shifted the goalposts so far they’ve reached the opposite end of the pitch, and I’m now expected to act as Palestine Action’s PR representative. Bravo.
I have no idea why they chose those planes. Maybe they’re imbeciles who can’t look simple things up on Wikipedia. Maybe they’re hotheads who wanted an adrenaline high. Maybe they have an ulterior agenda. Hopefully more will come out during the trial.
I will say though, if we allow a bit of wild speculation, that their US arm is run by Fergie Chambers, a massive fan of Putin and supporter of the invasion of Ukraine. These tankers are utterly pointless in Gaza, but quite vital in the event of a state actor like Russia putting military pressure on Britain. And such an attack would embarrass the RAF, the MoD, the Government and affect public confidence in national security. Russia has operated many times in Britain in recent years, such as the railway sabotage a while ago that caused travel chaos at an embarrassing moment.
“Sabotage” they threw paint at fighter jets idiot
Jet engines may react poorly with paint in the intakes. Those aircraft will need to be inspected and possibly repaired/maintained before they are allowed in the air again. That is sabotage.
They weren’t fighter jets, they used crowbars as well, and even a tiny bit of paint in a jet engine can cause catastrophic damage at the sort of RPM and temperature they operate at.
Samskarathey have actually been extraordinarily successful at damaging the economic machine behind the genocide through targeted and sustained sabotage campaigns against Elbit Systems weapons manufacturer and their supporters, like Barclays Bank
Do you have some reading on this?
Saurokwww.thecanary.co/page/1/?s=Palestine+action
The Canary has covered a lot of their actions against Elbit and others. I’ve linked the search page above… They’ve honestly done so much stuff that this’ll probably be easier and you can just scroll through the articles.
Thank you. I see lots of vandalism, breaking and entering, blocking business entrances, and such. They are well organized and committed. They seem to have some success with that as in companies divesting or stopping to supply. Pretty impressive.
Going after the RAF for a tenuous connection to Israel was a bit too daring and turned out to be a mistake.
Agreed. I think they probably could’ve kept at it for a while if they hadn’t fucked with the RAF, but it’s at least put a huge spotlight on them I guess. Hopefully, other Brits will take up the banner under different names/orgs.
I learned about this through an interview with a PA member on Rev Left Radio: …libsyn.com/palestine-action-direct-action-agains…
Rev Left Radio: Palestine Action: Direct Action Against the Death Machine
In this powerful episode, we sit down with a frontline activist from , the UK-based direct action network targeting Elbit Systems—the Israeli weapons manufacturer responsible for arming and enabling genocide in Palestine and beyond. We dig into the strategy of physically dismantling the military-industrial complex, the stakes of this fight, and the growing number of political prisoners facing terror charges for their resistance. Max, from Palestine Action, joins Breht to discuss the organization, the moral responsibility those in the imperial core have toward the victims of imperialism, Palestine Action's tactics and strategy, why they focus on Elbit Systems in particular, the role weapons manufacturers play in the ongoing genocide of Palestinians as well as perpetuating imperialism and colonialism around the planet, and other political prisoners, the deafening silence and lack of solidarity shown by liberal and mainstream pro-Palestine movements, and much more. Learn more, support, and donate to PalAction ------------------------------------------------------------- Support 3 families in Gaza Support Rev Left and get access to bonus episodes: Make a one-time donation to Rev Left at Follow, Subscribe, & Learn more about Rev Left Radio Outro Beat Prod. by
Are the protestors with signs saying they support palestinian action intending to state that they support the group or that they support action generally?
Either way they’ve manufactured this issue to protest anti-terrorism laws right?
Not sure if would die on this hill.
‘Palestine Action’ definitely refers to the group, otherwise you’d just put ‘Palestine’. I don’t think they did this to protest ant-terrorism laws, they’ve been very focused on targeting the genocide in Palestine so starting a new off-topic fight wouldn’t make sense for them.
Ah, so it’s the old “pay our people to do something ‘terrible/highly controversial’ in the name of our ‘enemy/opposing group’ so that we can discredit them and their cause and apprehend any of them”-rule
I don’t think there’s any need for false flag conspiracy theories. Palestine Action took credit for breaking into Brize Norton. I can only assume they thought it would generate enough attention to be worth the risk.
Them taking credit is no proof that they have no goverment agents inflitrated in their lines
I think the better question is ‘Does what they did justify them being classed as terrorists’ rather than ‘Were they entrapped by government agents’.
They are known to be bankrolled by James “Fergie” Chalmbers, American millionair heir, “communist” who by his own words “chants death to America every day” and is a supporter of the Russian invasion of Ukraine and has been on Russia state sponsored visits to the regions annexed byt Russia writing glowing praises of them.
It seems likely that at least Palestein action are useful idiots for the Russian state. Which isnt to say that banning them as a terrorsit group isnt massive overreach and completely undemocratic.
It’s a specific group that was proscribed after breaking into RAF Brize Norton and vandalizing tankers.
