McNeelyJul 2
Christine Lemmer-Webber

So, ICE is getting $75 billion in funding in this spending bill.

There's a directive to build a ton of new private prisons which are effectively concentration camps. Actually let's remove the "effectively". They ARE concentration camps, under nearly any definition of that term.

So why do people keep getting swept up for nearly no reason whatsoever? It's about quotas. 🧵

Jul 1 at 7:56pmWeb
Show threadChristine Lemmer-WebberJul 1

When you have a system like this, what we are looking at is a well funded set of slots and quotas, a promise of numbers.

And you know what happens with this. You know what it's like for you or someone else to get pulled over for a bullshit speeding ticket at the end of the month. The cop has been given a quota to fill. They'll be in trouble if they don't fill it. They *have to find* people who are in trouble, or *they'll* be in trouble. 🧵

Show threadChristine Lemmer-WebberJul 1

We are looking at maybe the most well funded goon squad / gestapo / secret police style system of all time. They've made the spaces for it, they have the directive to fill them.

Who's going in the prisons? Who is "breaking the rules", including under the new rules they're setting up?

Is it you?

Is it someone you love?

Is it someone you don't know directly, but someone you know indirectly?

This is where things are going. That's what's at stake.

Show threadDianeJul 1

@cwebber

I'm well aware of a host of nightmares ready to be loosed upon our dying world by the christian nationalist oil capitalists.

The question really is what are effective strategies to resist?

There's the easy stuff like contact congress or protest, but after those fail, what's next?

Flee the country?
Boycott big tech and the oil industry?
Switch to the untaxable underground economy?
Disappear into the wilderness or forgotten warrens of cities and go off grid?
Take over small towns and turn them into independent city/states?
Engage in direct economic or military sabotage?

If a countries economy breaks, the central government's ability to project power declines. Running armies and keeping the loyalty of secret police does require resources.

Show threadphase locked loupJul 1
@alienghic @cwebber all of those and more
Show threadViolet MadderJul 2

@alienghic @cwebber

That IS very seriously the question.

Show threadestelleJul 3

@alienghic @cwebber historically, pretty much every protest had clear demands, and this is because they'd protest until they got them

relatedly, the protests where seattle protestors surround the ICE facility and don't let anyone out until they let out the people they illegally detain have been, eventually, effective at raising the issue:

(article buries the lede on this)

https://www.kptv.com/2025/07/03/ice-facility-portland-may-have-violated-city-permit-rules-data-shows/

ICE facility in Portland may have violated city permit rules, data shows

Federal immigration authorities may have violated the conditions of a city permit at their Portland facility more than two dozen times, according to ICE’s own detention records.

Fox 12 Oregon
Show threadDianeJul 3

@estelle @cwebber

That's a pretty simple and effective strategy.

Show threadestelleJul 3
@alienghic @cwebber (as an aside: when researching some historical conflict, there will often be protests which preceded it, and the demands of these protests might be difficult to find, but usually point immediately towards the grievances which caused the whole conflict to begin with)
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 3

@alienghic @cwebber
We do seem to be at a point where law and legal means can, in fact, be said to have decisively failed.

IMO, that means this is a good time to break out the illegal nonviolent steps, like general strikes. After all, what's legal or not doesn't matter anymore at this point anyway.

Show threadDianeJul 3

@pteryx @cwebber

Getting all of the community organizing necessary to make that happen will be very hard.

https://newrepublic.com/article/193370/general-strike-trump-musk-sara-nelson-labor-unions

How would you deliver food and water if the stores are closed?

Is America Pissed Off Enough at Trump and Musk for a General Strike?

The United States hasn’t seen such a massive labor action in 78 years. But the oligarchic wreckage of this administration is fueling multiple movements toward that goal.

The New Republic
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 3
@alienghic @cwebber
You are right, it's not a snap-your-fingers sort of step. And I'm not involved with the sorts of groups who might already have been preparing to help others with this kind of problem. But I did see this coming enough that while I only have months' worth of freeze-dried food, I have *years'* worth of water filters, precisely because I figured I might need to share water with the neighborhood.
Show threadDianeJul 3

@pteryx @cwebber

I am sadly not that prepared.

Show threadSalty PuckJul 1

@cwebber
Its me. And some I love.

Nevermind if we've been here over 10 generations. They want to tortue us, they will.

Show threadKnut 🏳️‍🌈 🇳🇴🧸Jul 1
@cwebber my Cuban neighbor is still AWOL. I've tried calling him, our apartment manager has tried. We're all very worried.
Show threadnobodyJul 1
@cwebber Yup. and the only thing Americans have to do to end it, is stand up and march on dc and demand it end, before it gets any worse, or god forbid completely in motion.

no one is coming to save the usa…. only the people can.
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 2
@quin @cwebber
...Uh huh. I'm "just" supposed to march from *thousands of miles away*, into a *heavily surveilled city guarded by snipers*, in a country where there was *already* a *massive* double standard between how our cops treat left-wing and right-wing protesters, and that was *before* it started morphing into an outright fascist state. Explain to me exactly how that's supposed to work? And how I, in particular, avoid collapsing into a panic attack trying?
Show threadnobodyJul 2
@pteryx @cwebber Look, for Americans at this point right now in time. YES, it is either The American People unify and march on DC, to hold their corrupt government accountable.

OR

Tens of Millions of us get murdered by Nazis..

I'm sorry to be so openly honest about how Fascists operate. but no one is coming to save to us.

and no amount of cowardice or obedience will keep any of us safe.

Read some History Kid.

Italy 1922. Germany 1933. Russia 2000. USA 2025.

The Fourth Reich has bloomed and only The People can stop it.

The Government which ALLOWED fascism into power, is not going to save you from Fascism.
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 2

@quin @cwebber
"Read some history" doesn't answer my question, seeing as from what *I* remember from history, the Third Reich wasn't ended from within, but from losing WWII.

I'm not in denial of what's happening, I just think you're deluded about what the logistics of this are, and do not see a role I can effectively play in stopping things. You seem as though you're just putting a pretty face on "go get yourself killed because you deserve it, Amerikkkan".

Show threadnobodyJul 2
@pteryx @cwebber Yes, but the difference between the Third and Fourth Reich.
No one is coming to help us. we have alienated ourselves from the entire planet, by being absolutely fucking horrible.

If no one is coming to save us, that just leaves us, doesn't it?

First off, I am an American.
Secondly, if 20 million Americans march on DC like they do in other cities, they could coerce government reform without any violence.

But you damned kids, always think violence it's a fucking prerequisite for anything. it's NOT, grow up already.

and again, if 20 million Americans March on DC to Demand Government reform, would put enough pressure on the criminals in DC to actually make the changes.
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 2

@quin @cwebber
First, this "damned kid" is in her late 40s. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean the source of my demand for a realistic plan of action is naïveté.

Second, you're deliberately maliciously misinterpreting me. I'm not saying violence *by* leftist marchers would be necessary, but that violence *against* such marchers would be the result. Even Jan 6th was clearly pushing it, given for once MAGA was actually getting punished.

1/2

Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 2

@quin @cwebber
Third, I don't believe you're actually an American or you'd *know* about the left vs. right double standards about protest. A leftist January 6th wouldn't play out like the original; we'd just be massacred, and the propaganda machine would demonize it all.

Fourth, also pointing to your foreignness: most foreigners don't grasp the physical size of the US, and thus make demands exactly like this. Agatha Christie is not a geographer.

Show threadnobodyJul 2
@pteryx @cwebber Born and Raised in Utah, actually.

but you keep clinging to your defeatist attitude.
Show threadnobodyJul 2
@pteryx @cwebber No shit she was a novelist…

what the fuck are you smoking lady???
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 2
@quin @cwebber
The root of the snark there is that Murder on the Orient Express had an infamous geographical absurdity in it wherein it was asserted that people from an East Coast city would naturally know people from a Midwest city because the US is all one country. Sadly, that kind of misapprehension of how big the US is incredibly common among people who don't live in similarly large countries, which *does* lead to "why don't you take a daytrip?"
Show threadnobodyJul 2
@pteryx @cwebber oh, so we don’t have 20 million people on the east coast who could march on DC and also be joined by people who can get there..

that’s not possible in your world??

you’re a defeatist. you’ve given up without even tying.

it’s pathetic.
Show threadChristine Lemmer-WebberJul 2

@quin @pteryx Hey, I'm going to ask that you not call people pathetic like this on my thread.

And neither of you is going to be able to reach each other, so probably just let this subthread die here, cool off, do your best to move forward in whichever ways *you each* can. Thanks.

Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 2
@cwebber You spoke up too late. @quin already blocked me for not thinking G-rated movie solutions are the only option.
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 2

@cwebber
Let me be absolutely clear: what I'm saying isn't "nonviolence is stupid, I wanna kill people!" like this person seems to think. It's "you *do* realize that this is exactly the sort of regime that will respond to a massive nonviolent protest in DC by arbitrarily declaring it violent and 'counterattacking' with banned weaponry, right?"

[Edited to remove the ping to the block-bait person.]

Show threadnobodyJul 2
@cwebber @pteryx Look, all i am trying to do. is convince people to take part of the largest non violent sit in in human history.

what is pathetic, is that everyone i try to tell this to, has to devolve the idea into "but when does the violence happen, there has to be violence"

and to be honest, i am starting to believe that human beings are just, not evolved enough to actually save themselves.

and that's just sad..
Show threadChristine Lemmer-WebberJul 2
@quin @pteryx I actually am on the nonviolent sit-in side myself, in terms of tactics. I am just saying calling people "pathetic" is not an effective tactic itself.
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 2
@cwebber @quin
Claiming only one tactic is "right", acting like that tactic is perfect and can't possibly go wrong in any way, saying only people willing to engage in that tactic are "trying", and insisting that anyone trying to find other tactics more suited to their own strengths, weaknesses, and life situation means they're "defeatist" isn't exactly persuasive either.
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 3

@cwebber @quin
Does this person even realize her pings are still showing up for me despite her blocking me?

In any case, just because I don't know what to do *instead of* standing in front of militarized police waving my arms and shouting "Gas-bomb me!" doesn't mean I'm ignoring fascism or intend to do *nothing* about it. I'm not some ostrich letting normalcy bias tell me that the unmarked neutrally-colored vans are just someone's small business vehicle.

Show threadnobodyJul 3
@cwebber @pteryx oh right, because ignoring the rise of fascism is a good tactic.
Show threadMiakodaJul 2

@cwebber "But I'm not breaking the rules, and I'm a citizen"

A - Without due process, good luck proving you were born here

B - Trump is floating the idea of deporting Elon for criticizing the Big Bullshit Bill. If the richest man on Earth can't buy his way out of being disappeared, good fucking luck!

Show threadmmbyJul 2
@cwebber it's wild that not even the famous Stasi of the GDR ("state security") had quotas for arrests
Show threadAsta [AMP]Jul 1
@cwebber I was telling my spouse the other day... your "crime", whether you're highly visible or not, doesn't matter. You build a system and give it quotas, it's going to find you.
Show threadÁngela Stella MatutinaJul 1

@aud @cwebber

Given enough laws everything becomes a crime.

Show threadBen AvelingJul 1
@aud @angelastella @cwebber “it was not against the law, because there were no laws. But if discovered, it would be punished by death”
Show threadÁngela Stella MatutinaJul 1

@BenAveling @aud @cwebber

That's the other method. Depends on the kind of dictatorship. The one we enjoyed in Argentina was military-religious fascism. Bureaucratic nightmare.

Show threadAri "Two Naps" JacksonJul 1
@angelastella @aud @cwebber given a quota, everything becomes a crime as well. 🤬
Show threadÁngela Stella MatutinaJul 1

@arisummerland @aud @cwebber

Two of the "legs" of the system.

Show threadAri "Two Naps" JacksonJul 1
@angelastella @aud @cwebber Yup. 😖
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 1
@cwebber If we come out the other side of this, we need as a constitutional amendment (or core aspect of the new constitution) a ban on quotas for arrests, convictions, and/or punishment, at ALL levels of government.
Show threadGune MessiahJul 1
@pteryx @cwebber ⚓ if we come out the other side of this it will be because America and anything recognizable as a successor to America has been utterly destroyed
Show threadHeathen 🐈Jul 2
@pteryx @cwebber
I mean, the laws we HAVE are useless because the people in power violate them without a real consequence, making more laws seems kind of useless at the moment.
Show threadPteryx the Puzzle SecretaryJul 2
@heathen_cat @cwebber
Hence "if we come out the other side of this". We would have to get the rule of law back first.
Show threadMiakodaJul 2
@cwebber Ah, one of the reasons why you NEVER TALK TO THE FUCKING POLICE! They're ALWAYS searching for something to ticket or arrest YOU for... even if they're there to "help you". No, they're not there to help you. They showed up because the crime against you that you called in fills a quota slot somewhere.
Show threadNick Silkey🎙️N5ILK 🪓🪵 🪣💧Jul 2
@cwebber these quarterly numbers aren't gonna meet themselves. 🙅‍♀️