Mark Holtom (aka Kingbeard)Jun 23
"A cyclist is a disaster for the country's economy: he does not buy cars and does not borrow money to buy. He does not pay for insurance policies. He does not buy fuel, does not pay for the necessary maintenance and repairs. He does not use paid parking. He does not cause serious accidents. He does not require multi-lane highways. He does not get fat.
Healthy people are neither needed nor useful for the economy. They don't buy medicine. They do not go to hospitals or doctors. Nothing is added to the country's GDP (gross domestic product).
On the contrary, every new McDonald's restaurant creates at least 30 jobs: 10 cardiologists, 10 dentists, 10 dietary experts and nutritionists, and obviously, people who work at the restaurant itself."
Choose carefully: cyclist or McDonald's? It is worth considering.
P.S. Walking is even worse. Pedestrians don't even buy bicycles.
P.P.S. If you have read this far and still don't get it, this post is SATIRE. Reread it with this in mind.
Show threadMathieu PeronaJun 23
@MarkHoltom This is the reverse case of the broken window fallacy. What cyclists do not spend one way, they spend in other areas.
To the best of our knowledge, the net impact of cycling on GDP is positive, because cyclists are more productive (because healthier).
Show threadSepia FanJun 23

@MathieuP

But they spend their money the wrong way. Nothing goes to big business like car companies, construction industry (suburbian sprawl!), banks, pharma and healthcare etc.

And they lead a less resource intense life - that's not okay from a growth paradigm perspective.
Seriously, that's bad for capitalism.

@MarkHoltom

Show threadMathieu PeronaJun 23
@stekopf @MarkHoltom
Sorry, but this is not the way growth accounting works. Economic growth is producing more with the same amount of inputs, or less. When I avoid filling my car fuel tank and buy an album on Bandcamp instead, I create growth: there are less market-traded inputs for an additional copy of the album than for a tank of gasoline.
Notice the same holds if I replace the album with an Amazon Prime subscription.
Show threadMathieu PeronaJun 23
@stekopf @MarkHoltom There are many good reasons to cycle (full disclosure: I either bike or skate to work), but fighting capitalism is not one of them. Capitalism as perfectly integrated bicycle as a mass transportation mode in the past, and can perfectly do so again in the future.
In the current setting, I'd wager that switching from car transportation to biking increases growth (because of the healths benefits).
Show threadSepia FanJun 23

@MathieuP @MarkHoltom

Your point is, if I don't spend my money for a car (+ its ecosystem) then I spend my money otherwise - with a similar result?

My point is, if you don't spend your money for a car (+ its ecosystem), then you don't need so much money to make a good living.

If you travel more, buy a house etc., then you set the saving off. Then there is no effect on growth.
But if you decide to just work less (or not more, if you don't have a car yet) then this has an effect on growth.

1/2

Show threadSepia FanJun 23

My "anti-capitalism" narrative was not related to my first sentence "But they spend their money the wrong way.". It is releated only to the "less resource-intense life" from the 2nd paragraph. ;)

And ofc cycling can work in capitalism - that's not the point. But it reduces the recources you consume for a necessity of life, transportation.
But the times you probably are referring to we were on a lower GDP level - or looking at 🇳🇱, they are not cannibalising a car industry with promoting 🚲.

2/2

Show threadMathieu PeronaJun 23
@stekopf I understand.
Cycling can fit in a degrowth lifestyle. My concern is that the initial quote of the thread implies it causes a reduction in growth, which is false unless you, as you aptly point out, consciously integrate it in a change of your consumption habits (empirically, most people will not work less, but consume other things).
Show threadSepia Fan

@MathieuP

Yes, consumerism is strong in our society.
We need a change in lifestyles - changing to a less expensive travel mode can help question other problematic (overly expensive, extractive, harmful) habits.
But it's a long way.

Jun 23 at 2:58pmWeb