Dr. Lucky Tran 
Gilead has announced that lenacapavir, the game-changing HIV prevention drug just approved by the FDA will cost $28,218 USD per person per year.
Researchers say a generic version could be made for just $25 per person a year.
Capitalism kills.
pmonks (330ppm)@luckytran Of course a generic version could be manufactured more cheaply - those companies don’t incur much if any R&D, clinical trial, regulatory approval, etc. costs.
And before anyone accuses me of living at the opposite end of the spectrum, no I don’t think drug developers should be able to generate massive profits off their IP in perpetuity either. But the cost of development is real, substantial (especially due to the large %age of R&D failures that we never hear about), and has to be amortised somehow or else drug innovation will halt.
Kris Hardy@pmonks @luckytran Many of these costs are often funded by NIH contracts. I haven't gone through to see how much of US taxpayer dollars have already gone into it's development, and Gilead hasn't published their ROI AFAIK, so it is currently impossible to tell whether the price is reasonable or not. And THAT is a huge problem.
The Doctor
unlofl [Promoted Toot]@drwho @nonlinear @pmonks @luckytran and marketing is frequently a bigger part of their capital expenditures than research.
If we ban drug ads, then they'd be able to make drugs without gouging us /s
@unlofl @drwho @nonlinear @luckytran While I 100% agree with banning marketing of pharmaceuticals (and medical devices, and supplements, and beauty products, and …), and indeed some countries do exactly that, I dispute your claim that it’s a larger part of the cost of drug development than R&D. I suspect you’re failing to account for the majority of R&D that silently, but expensively, fails. Science is *hard*.
@pmonks @drwho @nonlinear @luckytran I'm just saying we should fuck them until they stop turning a profit, then we can readjust from there to give them a reasonable 10-20% return
And science is hard, which is why they avoid investing in it most of the time.
@unlofl @drwho @nonlinear @luckytran Abrupt changes such as the ones you’re suggesting will cripple innovation in the short to medium term. Are you willing to gamble with your health, and the health of your friends and family, in the years it will take for that to play out?
And to reiterate the 2nd paragraph in my original reply: no I don’t believe that drug developers and manufacturers should be given carte blanche to maximise profit off vulnerable sick people. But innovation is also valuable (especially given how many diseases are poorly treated or untreatable today), and has to be paid for somehow.
@drwho @unlofl @nonlinear @luckytran Heck there are mainstream illnesses that we don’t have great treatment options for yet - things like pancreatic cancer.
Världens bästa Kille™@pmonks @drwho @unlofl @nonlinear @luckytran Gotta go with pmonks here.
I’ve been working with (big) pharma advertising and other marketing A LOT. In Sweden we have a very good system for that. The background is we had a lot of pretty shade practises until the ~90’s, pharma corps paying for luxurious dinners/conferences etc.
Under threat of legislation the industry association imposed self regulation.
@pmonks @drwho @unlofl @nonlinear @luckytran
The result is a system where all companies try to make other companies look bad by ratting on them. The tiniest claim that isn’t perfectly worded etc. cost them dearly. Every single word has to have a peer reviewed article behind it. And they can’t pay for anything lest the care provider pays 50 % too. Can’t even go straight to the doctors, has to go by the head of the clinic.
@pmonks @drwho @unlofl @nonlinear @luckytran
It’s a good system. I can happily say it made my job virtually impossible.
Also the generic drugs will come. Patents last about ten years (they are sometimes re-parented, I don’t remember the details).
New drugs are really expensive because there are enormous costs creating them. It helps to have tax funded care.
@thelovebing @pmonks @unlofl @nonlinear @luckytran I've heard Legal talk about the black ops and funny business that goes on around keeping patents alive, but thankfully that's not my area of expertise. I've got my own ten pounds of coffee to drink on the systems engineering side.
@drwho @thelovebing @unlofl @nonlinear @luckytran Yep those kinds of shenanigans are absolutely the kind of thing that suggest we’re not at an optimal point on the spectrum I mentioned earlier. Heck the mere existence of Martin Shkreli and his ilk is proof of these dark arts.
@pmonks @thelovebing @unlofl @nonlinear @luckytran That asshole..
I don't think that it's possible for there to be an optimal balance now. There was a slim chance before, but now it won't happen.
@drwho @thelovebing @unlofl @nonlinear @luckytran That doesn’t mean we give up and don’t try to bend things the right way. But asserting that pharmaceutical companies deserve zero protected revenue (as the original post implied) is also not the answer. Generic manufacturers are inherently parasitic, and without new drugs being developed by *someone*, they suffer too (as does anyone with a disease that has no treatment today, but might in the future if we support innovation).
@nonlinear @pmonks @drwho @unlofl @luckytran
True. Having said that there should be a system for funneling money back to universities/the State when they’ve been involved in development. That’s not always the case now (fyi a Uni in Sweden is a special kind of independent government agency).
As for the marketing and advertising thingy the US is terrible. The EU is much, much better at regulating that stuff.
@pmonks @drwho @unlofl @nonlinear @luckytran Fun fact about that self regulation. LIF (the Pharma Industry Association) instituted Iinformationsgranskningsmannen, IGM, (literal translation "the Information Review Man"). In my day his name was Göran, and he dealt oput cease and desists and fines like they were birthday cards. We asked him a few times to pre-check our work. He never did.
Smart, because that meant the Medical and Legal people at the companies were scared shitless.
@pmonks @drwho @unlofl @nonlinear @luckytran
Doing nothing or, if they really had to, do something well within bounds was their default mode.
As I said, my job (I'm an advertising creative) became virtually impossible. To the point where I quit my fancy agency job because I got to do too much of that shit. Polishing turds isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Ψ*Ψ@pmonks @unlofl @drwho @nonlinear @luckytran antibiotics, antifungals, anything without strong market incentives