Molly WhiteBig Tech: we invented the torment nexus
Glasses brands: for $54.95, you can slightly reduce the torment
Dale Hagglund@molly0xfff Any idea if it's actually effective?
@DaleHagglund it's a gimmick
Asta [AMP]@molly0xfff @DaleHagglund I was gonna say, why would they... who is using infrared for ID stuff? Aren't a ton of cameras that do surveillance just... regular cameras?
SnoopJ@SnoopJ @molly0xfff @DaleHagglund Oh, true. OH, is this... marketed as like, "hey, now the cops will have to take your glasses off before using your biometric unlock" ?
@SnoopJ @molly0xfff @DaleHagglund Still, the marketing outright says tracking, which... I dunno if there are just way more IR cameras than I thought, or if they know it's useless and just don't care at all about anything.
@aud it seems much less sophisticated than all that to me. it looks like it's aimed at the market segment that thinks they're hot shit for knowing that infrared depth scanning is a thing (or at least that IR is involved somehow)
and are also dumb enough schmucks to think that because FaceID uses IR and because these glasses reflect IR, that transitively means this defeats FaceID.
I'm *sure* it doesn't, because FaceID isn't doing what a human being does and paying *lots* of attention to the eyes. It's a whole-datum classifier and it's pretty good except for that one time that it was SUPER RACIST because it works by digital phrenology basically
and more importantly if they did actually disrupt systems like these, they would say "this will absolutely fuck up your ability to unlock your phone do not wear them while using it" and not "this *may* frustrate FaceID 👉👈🥺"
@SnoopJ I think they shouldn't have this weak ass "reflective coating" nonsense. I want an active IR coating that blasts out IR energy the moment it feels the dreaded gaze of the camera. I see no reason this would go wrong and it definitely wouldn't melt your eyes.
because it works by digital phrenology basicallyreally is amazing how many times they keep inventing "racism but with computers"
@SnoopJ if I had a nickel for everytime someone referenced IBM's role in the holocaust today, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, etc.
(I also linked to Meredith Whittaker's essay on the intertwined history of computers and slavery)...
(I also linked to Meredith Whittaker's essay on the intertwined history of computers and slavery)...
@aud I still gotta read that book but I know the broad strokes of EDC's enthusiastic assistance of the Holocaust, so…
…unfortunately, that puts me well ahead of the median peer 
@aud the worst part is how it predates computer, even.
like, a bigot helped create the transistor because he was buttmad about the quality of the work his peers were doing
I mean no wonder the guys who cut their teeth under guys like Shockley ended up building The (Improved!) Racism Machine
@aud anyway, I imagine that defeating FaceID with active transmission would still keep transmission power pretty low?
Probably don't have to get much brighter than like, a Wiimote LED, "just" have to cover enough of your face with that irradiance which… probably involves wearing a mask that would be just about as good without the IR
@SnoopJ (oh yeah, for sure. I was just thinking of a super exaggerated blast of heat coming out of the eyes ala cyclops or something because I am being ridiculous).
@aud I bet it doesn't take a *ton* of power to blind the camera, if you can collate a narrow beam.
Probably enough to get into "go directly to federal prison" territory though.
@SnoopJ everything fun you can do with technology that doesn't hurt people gets you to sent to prison. this sucks.
@aud well in this SPECIFIC case, capping transmit power is pretty much what keeps people from getting hurt
a buddy of mine did his thesis on this actually, it turns out that safety limits aren't… always the best place to put your line in the sand.
more specifically, in the IR regime he showed it was possible to reach power densities with pulsed lasers to do supercontinuum generation IN THE VITREOUS HUMOR
@SnoopJ oh jesus, looks like I have a lot of reading to do. aaaaaand wow, all it takes is two seconds googling him and goddamn
oh, he taught at Stanford. Things are coming together here...
oh, he taught at Stanford. Things are coming together here...
@aud I know about him because of "The Idea Factory" which is a brilliant if you've got the bug for phones or even if you don't
@aud studying physics basically force-inducts you into the Ma Bell Fan Club
the transistor, the cosmic microwave background, Bragg diffraction, …
@aud unfortunately a lot of people learned the lesson from Ma Bell's success that "open offices are good" instead of "collaboration is good"
@SnoopJ oh yeah, even as a non physics kid, I know enough about Bell to be a fan of... well.
Certainly not all the people, given the dive I just took into fucking Shockley's life, but
Certainly not all the people, given the dive I just took into fucking Shockley's life, but
cholling@SnoopJ @aud For real. Whenever I see people in '90s movies complaining about working in cubicles, I think, "You don't know how good you have it. Soon they'll take away the cubicles and you'll just have a desk, surrounded by other desks, with nothing to shield you from your coworkers' inane and distracting chatter. You'll pray for the sweet protection of cubicle walls."
@SnoopJ @molly0xfff @DaleHagglund soooooo I did a quick search and this was one of the first things that came up when I searched for facial tracking and IR
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004223011161
title: "Using infrared to improve face recognition of individuals with highly pigmented skin"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004223011161
title: "Using infrared to improve face recognition of individuals with highly pigmented skin"