geneva_convenienceDirect hit in Tel Aviv
okgurlwow so sad, it’s almost like they started multiple wars or something
SupaTubaI feel terrible for every citizen killed or made homeless/jobless because of this.
bus_factorIf they voted for Netanyahu they asked for it, and I have no sympathy.
Well I’m glad all of your elected officials represent your views and morals.
LileathThe majority of Israelis supports the genocide of the Palestinians according to surveys and more than half of jewish Israelis support attacking Iran even without US support.
Doesn’t the majority of Americans agree with Trump’s immigration policy as well? Guess if the approval rating is > 50% we should just allow anyone to bomb the everliving shit out of any civilian no matter of their political view?
I’m in no fucking way in support for Israel, fuck them and the people supporting their actions, but I am also 100% against killing civilians anywhere. Not in Israel, not in Russia, not in Iran, not in Gaza.
The normalization of accepting civilian casualties because they belong to the “enemy” state is a fucking disgusting mindset we all need to get rid off as soon as possible.
It'sbetterwithbutterThe majority of the world is critical of ALL Americans now for Trump, he was elected twice, thant’s on them all. Israelis have expressed majority support for this ongoing genocide and attacks on Iran, this is on them all. Bomb a soverign nation “pre emptively” get bombed back.
Fuck the entire Israeli government and anyone who supports it.
By that logic you could say that because there is an overwhelming support for outlawing LGBTQ rights in Iran and Gaza, Israel is fine with commiting their genocide because fuck anyone who wants to imprison or kill LGBTQ people, am I right?
Just stop fucking killing civilians, or cheer for the death of civilians, it’s never morally correct. It’s an act of terror, and any regime doing it should be classified as a terrorist regime.
Just to be clear, I am FINE, no, I even SUPPORT retaliatory strikes on Israel, but do it on military targets FFS. Bomb the everliving fuck out of Israel, but don’t target civilians, there are plenty of tactical targets to choose from.
What a moronic comparison.
Fuck the zionist bastard Israelis and fuck the Iranian regime.
But Fuck the Israeli zionists more.
Ok, so what makes it OK to kill Israeli civilians but not Palestinian or Iranian? Where is the line drawn for when it’s ok to kill civilians? Is the line exactly at supporting genocide? Is it OK as long as one side is worse than the other?
I have a co-worker who support Israel, should I just go ahead and stab them to death the next time I see them?
What’s stopping you from going to the closest Israel apologist and shooting them in the face?
Please let me know what makes you accept civilian casualties of one kind but not the other.
I’ll be back here with my insane and moronic reasoning of civilians being killed always being a bad thing.
Where did I mention it’s ok to kill civilians? Are you as outraged at the tens of thousands of dead civilians in Gaza?
When a country attacks a sovereign nation, they should expect retaliation. When the majority of that country backs genocide, I don’t feel too much empathy.
I am far more outraged at the tens of thousands of dead civilians in Gaza, if I haven’t made that clear by stating several times that Israel is committing fucking Genocide.
The comment I first wrote a reply to insinuated that because a majority of Israelis agree with the genocide, the Iranian strikes are valid despite targeting civilian locations. I am of the opinion that no side, ever, have validity in targeting civilians. I don’t care what the majority thinks, if you don’t partake in said genocide, I don’t think you deserve to be targeted.
As I see it, you are arguing against me in targeting civilians being wrong. If that is not the case, its a misunderstanding. If it is the case, we are in disagreement.
Peace out ✌️
Iran targetted military structures based in Tel Aviv, much like Israels claims, some collateral damage will happen.
I am Lebanese and have lived through two Israeli wars on Lebanon, the 82 invasion and the 2006 July war. Israel targets journalists and medics and civilians constantly as I have witnessed first hand.
I don’t condone attacks on civilians, but when Israel is involved I have zero empathy. I used to, but now zero. I couldn’t care less if the entire Israeli popluation live in shelters for decades until they behave like a normal country. They cannot tout being a democracy anymore and the wests support for Israel is disgusting.
I have complete understanding of your feelings on the subject and will not hold your reasoning against you, and just want to end with saying our feelings against Israel seem to be very much alike, with the exception of the subject of civilian casualties.
I wish you a very nice weekend!
I wish you a great one too!
sudo_haltI mean if a candidate is the “Hello, I am literally hitler” and you vote for them, maybe you’re fucked in the head?
Except, as is here in the US, we didn’t all vote for that, now did we?
The rest would do the same.
As they always have proven their enire miserable history.
Singling out Netanyahoo is Bernie the sheepdogs tactics of dammage control
As they always have proven their enire miserable history.
Singling out Netanyahoo is Bernie the sheepdogs tactics of dammage control
Blaming the government in power and those who put them in power for the actions taken by the government is totally reasonable.
You’re suggesting well “what about a hypothetical government that doesn’t exist huh?”. That doesn’t matter. They don’t exist. Blame the government
Israel didn’t become an apartheid genocidal occupation of Palestinian land under Netanyahu. It’s has been since its founding.
You’re suggesting we close our eyes and pretend their entire history doesn’t matter, that we just blame the current figurehead.
Every government before him was the same, they’re not ‘hypothetical’. Ridiculous argument.
What doesn’t exist is a reality where the next government isn’t brutally mistreating Palestine.
Your hasbara is weak
What doesn’t exist is a reality where the next government isn’t brutally mistreating Palestine.
Your hasbara is weak
First let’s settle one thing, Israel has no right to exist. I’m against assuming 100% of the populace is all for the genocide. The majority government and their supporters clearly are.
The apartheid state of Israel needs to end. The genocide needs to be stopped by any means, except a genocide in return.
The entire majority government and their supporters can hang.
I’m not going to condem the rest for a “thought” crime they didn’t commit. Maybe they would have done the same thing, maybe not.
I hope you are being naive.
aljazeera.com/…/poll-53-israelis-support-extrajud….
timesofisrael.com/poll-half-of-jewish-israelis-sa…
Plenty of jews outside the apartheid state are against it.
Those that live there, wether bcs of propaganda or a superiority complex don’t.
Maybe 5 to 10% maximum have normal views.
You know what they say about people trying the same thing and expecting different results.
Hopefully they take the opportunity for a fresh start and move out of the settler occupation of Palestine.
AntiOutsideAktionFun fact: every citizen of the entity is considered a reservist so there ARE no civilians! If you’re a settler you’re a valid target no matter what!
Idk man. If you’re a child, a unhoused, or a otherwise a person without the economic means to leave because your ancestors were settlers and you just so happened to be born in the colonized land, I’d consider you a civilian. I think your view is too black and white.
Screw you if you’re a deliberate Zionist benefiting from genocide though.
Israelis aren’t walled in and prevented from leaving like Palestinians are in Gaza.
Israelis have no practical excuse to continue their occupation, especially when everyone is forced to serve in the IDF to actively aid the occupation rather than just passively.
As long as they are not on active duty, they shouldn’t be targets. And if they are forced to serve, they should still only be killed if they are an active threat. Normally, they should first be offered to surrender.
Hope you’re acting ironic and do not actually call to genocide all Jews in Israel.
No, but all Israelis that are zionists maybe.
Zionists are not Jewish people, they are actually against Judaism.
I believe it’s the Talmud that says Israel cannot exist until the messiah returns. This is why you have many religious Jews in the US against the state of Israel.
Zionists are the one and only antisemites.
Zionists are mostly Jews, but Jews are mostly not Zionists.
But yes, according to Talmud, Israel shouldn’t exist.
Zionist are not jews. They might say they are but the are against Judaism just like southern Christians are not Christians.
There are more Christian Zionists than there are Jews in total.
“Zionists are mostly Jews” is an objectively false statement.
Maybe specifically in Israel the statement would be true, but that’s only because Israel is a jewish settler ethnostate, so most of almost any grouping would be a majority Jews.
Hope you’re acting ironic by saying that you can commit a genocide, put your gun over the fireplace you murdered a family to steal, and suddenly not be a valid target.
It doesn’t matter if you put your gun down as a settler colonizer. You’re still actively engaging in the genocide. You are still a valid target.
How are you engaging in genocide if you do not take part in the war? And especially if you denounce the actions of your government? Is being born in Israel enough to be seen as a genocidal maniac?
I swear this “settler” discourse is gonna drive me crazy at some point.
How can you call me a robber just because I accepted all of these stolen goods that were stolen specifically for me to have?
Shut the fuck up holy god
In no way to be a snob, but could we tone it down? After all, we’re mostly on the same page on that the state of Israel is committing war crimes, we only differ in who we blame for it.
Back to the substance:
First, Israel as an independent state exists since 1948, so yes, the absolute majority of people living in modern day Israel were born there; they are not the same people who came to displace Palestinians all those decades ago.
Second, I did not talk about IDF soldiers. Those who voluntarily joined Israeli armed forces do take part in an act of evil, and deserve to be judged. I do not support the same notion in respect to Israeli civilians and those on mandatory service.
Third, in your robber hypothetical, where are the Israeli civilians? Do they have to renounce their citizenship and go live abroad not to receive “stolen goods”? Someone who is opposed to the war taking place are not “robbers” here.
First, Israel as an independent state exists since 1948, so yes, the absolute majority of people living in modern day Israel were born there
Mind palace nonsense. Fuck you just saying shit so confidently. 50% of the jewish population emigrated since 2000.
Second, I did not talk about IDF soldiers. Those who voluntarily joined Israeli armed forces do take part in an act of evil, and deserve to be judged. I do not support the same notion in respect to Israeli civilians and those on mandatory service.
Literally learn the first fucking thing about the subject you’re talking about before you open your dumb fucking mouth about it. Not even going to help you here. Shut up. Sit down. Listen. Read. But most importantly shut the fuck up.
hypothetical
Fucking nazi genocide denial
Most of your points can be readily disproved with a single search query, however, it’s not worth engaging with a person who can’t hold their temper for a second.
Therapy does magic.
You know what you call someone who remains placid and unphased in the face of a genocide?
A Nazi.
Most of your points can be readily disproved
Feels > reals
Anarcho-BolshevikOn July 11, Landau had to “work” through the night shooting Jews and Ukrainians. Nevertheless, he and a colleague still managed to find time between the killings to grab a snack of sour milk and new potatoes, while his “thoughts remained” with his Trudy.⁶² Early the following morning, he was back at work executing twenty-three men and women. Subsequently, Landau recorded, “Strange, I am completely unmoved. No pity, nothing.”
(Source.)
Drunk on Genocide
In Drunk on Genocide, Edward B. Westermann reveals how, over the course of the Third Reich, scenes involving alcohol consumption and revelry among the SS and police became a routine part of rituals of humiliation in the camps, ghettos, and killing fields of Eastern Europe. Westermann draws on a vast range of newly unearthed material to explore how alcohol consumption served as a literal and metaphorical lubricant for mass murder. It facilitated "performative masculinity," expressly linked to physical or sexual violence. Such inebriated exhibitions extended from meetings of top Nazi officials to the rank and file, celebrating at the grave sites of their victims. Westermann argues that, contrary to the common misconception of the SS and police as stone-cold killers, they were, in fact, intoxicated with the act of murder itself.Drunk on Genocide highlights the intersections of masculinity, drinking ritual, sexual violence, and mass murder to expose the role of alcohol and celebratory ritual in the Nazi genocide of European Jews. Its surprising and disturbing findings offer a new perspective on the mindset, motivation, and mentality of killers as they prepared for, and participated in, mass extermination.Published in Association with the US Holocaust Memorial Museum.
I don’t want to talk ethics, but as a rule of thumb, winning a war is easier if you take out strategic targets than if you target civilians. Targeting civilians is what you do if your weapons aren’t precise enough to target tanks/planes etc.
Shouldn’t be a citizen on stolen land.
queermunist she/herUSAmericans sweating rn 😬
Don’t think they care much. Or about anything except themselves for that matter.
The most navel staring country on the planet
The most navel staring country on the planet
The reason the US supports Israel is exactly because Israel is a settler-colony. They’re part of the same genocidal settler project, Zionism is Manifest Destiny.
If landback wins in Israel the ones paying attention know that it’s coming for them too.
It’s also a geographically beneficial located proxy.
But they didn’t have to make a colony of European settlers to do that, did they? Egypt is a loyal collaborator with the US and it fulfills the same geostrategic goals, but the amount of support Egypt gets pales in comparison to Israel. Why is that?
We can’t dismiss the ideological importance of Israel. The unlimited support of the 51st state is exactly because it is a settler-colony.
I don’t see many ethnic Egyptians in places of power that can influence policy or get laws voted concerning their country.
Egypt hasn’t always been loyal, certainly not the population.
They overthrew the previous puppet despite US efforts to keep him in place.
When they saw it was hopeless they threw him under the bus and ‘supported’ the arab spring movement.
In reality they hijacked the revolution and simply put another puppet in place.
Egypt hasn’t always been loyal, certainly not the population.
They overthrew the previous puppet despite US efforts to keep him in place.
When they saw it was hopeless they threw him under the bus and ‘supported’ the arab spring movement.
In reality they hijacked the revolution and simply put another puppet in place.
Settler-colonialism isn’t just about who is in power (although it is about that). That’s just regular colonialism, like French Algeria.
Settler-colonialism is about importing settlers to replace the indigenous population while enacting genocidal policies to exterminate or expell the indigenous population. Egypt isn’t experiencing that.
That’s why Egypt doesn’t get the level of support that Israel does.
That is your view.
I disagree.
I disagree.
This belief that Israel is a US controlled proxy has always vexed me.
So-- honest question here-- From inside the US it appears that our entire political apparatus is controlled by a relatively small sprinkling of zionists doing whatever is good for Israel and is inevitably bad for the US-- going all the way back to the Nakba. But theres always people (like yourself) on Lemmy and Reddit claiming Israel is a US creature.
As an American my free speech ends and I get prosecuted if I say anything anti semitic. I CAN say racist things about anyone else, all I want as long as I dont start a riot.
Can you tell me why you are so certain zionism is controlled by the US (your understanding), not the US by rich zionists (my understanding)?
The US and Israel have a partnership.
While the zionist representation is very visible in US politics and creates the belief that they contol it it is not so.
Can you honestly believe that if you objectively compare the two?
A tiny country with a small population and a small army (despite again being disproportionally and relatively big) vs a huge country with the largest military in the world that was already a world power before the other even existed.
" doing whatever is good for Israel and is inevitably bad for the US"
Can you give an example?
If you’re thinking now that the bad thing is israel may drag the US into war with Iran you’re mistaken.
That may happen but it’s bcs it is the US intention to have war on Iran.
They have provoked them many times all on their own without using the israel proxy.
Hijacking ships, small attacks and unilaterally breaking the nuclear deal, etc. to increase tension.
Anyway here’s a good article I recently read.
Whatever is happening now has long been predicted.
“Did you just …downvote and run away from the question? It was an honest question.”
I sometimes sleep, and never run away from a discussion if it’s civil or useful.
Which is rare here since .world is infested with reactionary clowns throwing insults and platitutes when they lose an argument.
Let me know what you think.
Why does the U.S. support Israel? A geopolitical analysis with economist Michael Hudson | MR Online
A former U.S. secretary of state boasted, “Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk”. Journalist Ben Norton and economist Michael Hudson discuss why the United States so strongly supports Israel.
examples of whats good for Israel being bad for the US:
Our aligning with Israel during the Yom Kipur war (6 day war) caused Oil prices to quadruple, which caused a decade of turmoil in the US, and almost incalculable damage to our currency. And it never really recovered to a natural pattern. The US runs on oil.
macrotrends.net/…/crude-oil-price-history-chart See that massive bump up in 1973?
And what was our reward for that? Did we gain any political leverage at all in that region? Bases? soft power? No. No we didnt. all we got was some of the blame for the Nakba, and some of the blame for the ridiculous levels persecution and murder of the Palestinian people. It was pure cost.
1990-1991 Desert storm Israel badly wanted Sadam Hussein removed. Iraq said they invaded Kuwait because Kuwait was slant drilling into their oil fields, which is true and was known at the time to be true. So we invaded and rescued a bunch of literal thieves-- and coincidentally destroyed a potent adversary of Israel. What did we gain? anything? Two air bases, and thats about it, at great cost. The government or Iraq is barely more friendly to us that they were before. I suppose we got CENTCOM established in Kuwait. So thas not nothing, but its darn close to nothing. Israel got a major enemy removed for them. They didnt join in desert storm-- and did not allow overflight of their territory during it. They are not, and never have been a real military ally. They court Russia as much as they do the US. Same as India.
9/11/2001. Bin Laden says he attacked the world trade centers in new york to bring US public eyes to the plight of the Palestinian people that their government was facilitating, but that Americans had no idea about. And what did our people do? Our government idiotically claimed “they hated us for our freedoms”, and made a big show about not blaming all muslims, just some. What was America’s gain there? And when the attack happened, Israelis in New York and Israel were caught on tape literally cheering about it and filming it.
Bin Ladens interview with PBS: www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/…/miller.html “The American imposes himself on everyone. Americans accuse our children in Palestine of being terrorists–those children, who have no weapons and have not even reached maturity. At the same time, Americans defend a country, the state of the Jews, that has a policy to destroy the future of these children.”
Obviously no one condones or support what Bin Laden did, but lets be clear eyed in our foreign policy: was he incorrect in any way in his statement? I dont see how we can honestly say he was not being earnest – to his point of view anyway. 9/11 and its outcomes would seem to be a massive, massive, massive cost to the United states in terms of hard power and soft, and added tremendously to our national debt burden. We have the TSA exactly because of Israel’s murderous colonial adventurism. What of we’d simply show the muslim world the diplomatic respect of equals from the start? And he was right, zionism IS a policy of displacing the locals from their land however possible. Thats all it is. Its theft and murder. Its not self defense or justice.
And that brings us to today. The world HATES the US because of our stand with Israel. They now see us as almost as bad as Israel. Stupid. Easily manipulated. A global problem. This is as we have also been the main contributor to food aid and the stability of trade across the planet. Thats a cost. And what have we gotten out of it? Our funding of free weapons for shenangans and murder, and our vetoing every resolution that is about peace and justice in the region for Israeli gain costs us dearly. It makes every American traveler unsafe and unwelcome, and makes people not want to trade with us or listen to our opinions. It is destroying democracy. The world is ditching the dollar.
And for what exactly? What exactly does Israel provide to the US beyond campaign bribes through AIPAC? Intel on their enemies?
Crude Oil Prices - Historical Chart | MacroTrends
Interactive charts of West Texas Intermediate (WTI or NYMEX) crude oil prices per barrel back to 1946. The price of oil shown is adjusted for inflation using the headline CPI and is shown by default on a logarithmic scale. The current month is updated on an hourly basis with today's latest value.
You’re really shifting blame here and misrepresenting history.
The US has done plenty of scumbaggery including some you put in pisrahells shoes.
That’s why they hate you and it’s well deserved.
You caused infinitely more deaths and miserythan the little coloniser entity.
The US has done plenty of scumbaggery including some you put in pisrahells shoes.
That’s why they hate you and it’s well deserved.
You caused infinitely more deaths and miserythan the little coloniser entity.
No answer for any of it so you just deny all of it. So you’re hasbara after all. disappointing. Well at least we all know.
LOL You’re insane
ok? and your arguments are empty, biased, self serving and unsupportably weak.
You are the one from the coward country invariably bombing weddings from far away.
Can’t explain anything to someone who’s american dumb and had crappy propagandised education and news on his banana republic.
Waste of time, like explaining quantum theorie to a dog.
Enjoy yor shithole, now fuck off
Can’t explain anything to someone who’s american dumb and had crappy propagandised education and news on his banana republic.
Waste of time, like explaining quantum theorie to a dog.
Enjoy yor shithole, now fuck off
Uh huh. Except none of what I listed is as complex and theoretical as quantum theory.
You’re just using that comparison as a dodge because you have no answer to what I laid out. 50 years of the US being continually shafted and getting nothing from our “partnership” with zionists has been a disaster for the US and it has to stop.
Us next!
Manifest destiny said the US land is all ours. Also Hawaii.
Divine right mandated by God, so…
Every land is stolen. The problem is that they’re in the middle of committing genocide.