Charlie StrossIf your corporation's business model relies on lawbreaking, your corporation has no legal legitimacy.
We don't let narcotic cartels and trafficking rings list themselves on the stock exchange: why should OpenAI or Facebook be any different?
NiceMicro@cstross copyright doesn't give you total control over your creative work.
under US and Canadian law, there are "fair use" exceptions, and "being transformative" is one of those, meaning, no consent of the original author is required. And as far as I know, most copyright lawyers expect "training an AI" as transformative.
So, artists are actually demanding a change to the law in free use, while the drug cartels are breaking law that already exists.
Ur Ya'ar@nicemicro
> And as far as I know, most copyright lawyers expect "training an AI" as transformative.
Can you back up this claim?
I was under the impression that the debate on whether AI training falls under "fair use" hasn't reached a consesus yet.
@yaarur @nicemicro Also "fair use" is US law; outside the USA, laws differ (there's no "fair use" in the UK, for example—"fair dealing" is rather more restrictive).
@cstross @yaarur yes, it is true, and I have not seen any real legal analysis W.r.t. to UK or Canada law, so I can't comment on that.
But if you published your work on a platform in America, and it was used to train an AI by a company seated in the USA, then I doubt that the British law will have much relevance in the case, as the US based AI company might argue, that by "exporting" your work to the states, it is governed by laws there.
but I'm not a lawyer, so I have no idea if this stands.
@nicemicro @yaarur Wrong. The big AI companies have been downloading pirate websites with illegally acquired ebooks, so no legal license for use of any kind. These also include UK editions taken without consent and some of these sites are hosted in places like Russia. Finally, my works *are* published legally in the USA, so I suspect the legal departments of Penguin-Random House and Macmillan might like a word with them …
@cstross @yaarur last time I checked, downloading from pirate websites in good faith is not illegal. Sharing pirated stuff on websites is. This is why copyright trolls will upload their bait to torrent sites, because they can only have a legal case against you if you start seeding back the (i.e. distributing) the stuff you downloaded.
If you (or your publisher) end up suing them, I wish you good luck, and please let us know, because I'm honestly curious how such a case would be litigated.