systemd-jaded.timerfyi there's a European citizens initiative to ban conversion therapy, which is an abusive, ineffective and traumatizing practice against children to try to make them not queer. if you live in the EU you should consider signing it! https://eci.ec.europa.eu/043/public/#/screen/home
Lunaphied@leftpaddotpy it also applies to adults who are often bullied or compelled into doing such things "of their own free will" despite the coercion! Important since it's often just as harmful and it's definitely just as ineffective
Helle, Queen of Dissociation 
@Lunaphied @leftpaddotpy this is why the netherlands is so feet dragging on it, they believe there is free will to this, when their entire community is pushing them to go
we know one gender creature who will never seriously consider what is going on due to this......
@leftpaddotpy @helle iirc there's massive support now even from PVV but the last time a law was proposed to criminalize it, the Council of State recommended against it due to likely unconstitutionality. Fucking USA ass bullshit
@Lunaphied @leftpaddotpy yes, because the constitution is way too religion friendly here
it has a history for this, but urgh
@helle @leftpaddotpy pssh, the US constitution literally says "no law shall be made about the practice of religion" iirc and states have still managed it. Conversion therapy itself isn't religion after all. There's an understanding that like you can't just say sacrifices and torture are part of your religion so they're free game
@Lunaphied @leftpaddotpy
yeah, this is why the Raad van State advies is nonsense, but we know that the fucks in Urk and Staphorst will throw a fit (and a lot of money)
yeah, this is why the Raad van State advies is nonsense, but we know that the fucks in Urk and Staphorst will throw a fit (and a lot of money)
@leftpaddotpy @helle regressive fucks. idfk why the rest of the country tolerates that kind of thing. I bet they advocated against the redesigns for biking and walking back in the day too
@Lunaphied @leftpaddotpy they are the people who fight against changing zwarte piet to not resemble a racist stereotype (and instead using soot smudges, etc)
@leftpaddotpy @helle yeah. though I thought at this point that was generically considered settled
@Lunaphied @leftpaddotpy nope, people have been beaten up over it like recently, and like there are towns still insisting on the other style
lie the history on it is not strongly racist, but it sure gets used that way now and well, it offends people, so fucking change it
@helle @leftpaddotpy yeah I mean that's the thing. if something can be made into a tool for racists it will. Not entirely sure why it doesn't blatantly violate antidiscrimination laws though
@Lunaphied @leftpaddotpy because it isn't meant as such, the zwarte piet is based off of moorish nobility in terms of the modern styling, mixed with some of the knecht rupert stuff as seen in germany still of a (willing) demonic servant of sinterklaas
add some canadians taking this from sinterklaas and one zwarte piet to many zwarte pieten at the end of WW2 and you have the modern tradition (yes, it was canadians wanting to give children gifts at the end of ww2 creating that part)
@helle @leftpaddotpy yeah I just meant given how it's been used by racists in recent times kind of changes the meaning though. Also yeah Germany being demonic servants checks out. They do like bureaucracy
@helle @Lunaphied the thing is even if it's possible but not definitely unconstitutional the only problem with doing it anyway is wasting legal fees finding out if it is or not
@leftpaddotpy @Lunaphied not quite with how dutch law works, a law can override the constitution and it is up to the senate to block it if it does, not a judge
EveyPN@Lunaphied @leftpaddotpy @helle Not that it was unconstitutionally but that it was just badly written, https://www.raadvanstate.nl/adviezen/@133311/w16-22-0200-ii/ the fully advice.
Alejandro_P@leftpaddotpy just wanted to say, I live in the EU but not allowed to vote since am not a citizen
Only EU nationals can vote, not everyone