Jon Worth

There was quite some fuss a few weeks ago about a company called Travelski claiming to run a night train Paris to the Alps ⛰ for skiiers, and from the coming season https://www.travelski.com/travelski-night-express

But I can find no evidence HOW they can do this, so I made a #BullshitMeter for it

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May 7, 2025 at 9:06amWeb
Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
(And yes, there is a SNCF night train to Briançon which you can use to go skiing, but the destination of this private one is supposed to be Bourg St Maurice to serve a lot of the much larger resorts)
Show threadJuha AuteroMay 7, 2025
@jon I haven't checked things like exact wording or where is Brançion, but could it be reserved carriages from existing night train and bus transport to Bourg St Maurice with some marketing BS?
Show threadJuha AuteroMay 7, 2025
@jon Now I checked the page and even with my non-existent French it looks like just that. And Travelski sound like a travel company organising ski trips, not a train operator.
Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@jautero Do you think I really didn't check that? The answer is NO, it is NOT THAT. It is a train to go to Bourg St Maurice, with a dining car (that SNCF does not even have).
Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@jautero Makes total sense. Not. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Bourg-Saint-Maurice,+Place+de+la+Gare,+Bourg-Saint-Maurice/05100+Brian%C3%A7on/@45.281277,6.1936434,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x47896f514a25d27d:0x684f3902245b73ce!2m2!1d6.7714384!2d45.6191367!1m5!1m1!1s0x4789e46803744111:0x40819a5fd97a9a0!2m2!1d6.643179!2d44.899416!3e0?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDUwMy4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDUzSAFQAw%3D%3D
Bevor Sie zu Google Maps weitergehen

Show threadGSV Megastructure EnthusiastMay 7, 2025
@jon is the Briançon train/skiing nice? It sounds lovely.
Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@skorgu Not really, because that's not the best part of the Alps for skiing. But it is no doubt a pleasant (if slow) ride.
Show threadPierre MasséMay 7, 2025
@jon a friend of mine literally did a Paris-Briançon night train this winter, so they kinda already exist?
Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@pierrotechnique To Briançon, yes. This claims to be Bourg St Maurice, and private, in a package. Basically: there are no night trains to the main resorts in the Alps from Paris, only TGVs.
Show threadPierre MasséMay 7, 2025
@jon kinda makes sense though, most of the Northern Alps are relatively accessible from Paris. night trains only really make sense once you have to get to the other side of the Écrins
Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@pierrotechnique Yes, I agree with that. A night train from somewhere Benelux or Lille to Bourg St Maurice would be a better bet I think, although harder to operate of course.
Show threadSebastian WilkenMay 7, 2025
@jon I'm finding it increasingly hard to understand why we get so excited about these announcements. The only traffic they seem to generate is to the news sites publishing them. And even if it were realised — how much capacity would it actually add to the rail network?
Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@sebwilken I can't answer the latter point as I don't think they have any carriages, so do not have any capacity to even add! 🤷‍♂️
Show threadlukas wirzMay 7, 2025
@jon How do you rate the recent news about building EU gauge tracks some distance into Finland (and other nearby projects)? https://www.lok-report.de/news/europa/item/57989-finnland-die-planung-von-rail-nordica-beginnt-in-der-diskussion-um-die-ausgabengrenzen-wurde-eine-historische-entscheidung-getroffen.html
LOK Report - Finnland: Die Planung von Rail Nordica beginnt – in der Diskussion um die Ausgabengrenzen wurde eine historische Entscheidung getroffen

Fotos Peter Pohlmann, Michael Geuckler. In der Finanzübersicht des Staates für den Zeitraum 2026–2029 schlägt die Regierung vor, 20 Mio. EUR für ein Projekt bereitzustellen, mit dem mit der Planung des Ausbaus der europäischen Spurweite von Schweden nach Finnland begonnen werden soll. "Der Begin...

Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@lnwirz I can't really do a #Bullshitmeter for that one, as it's hard to assess what will actually happen (or not). I think the EU pressure to re-gauge will decrease now Valean is no longer Commissioner, as it's the sort of simple but crap idea she liked. Because when you look at it re-gauging makes little sense, unless you're building new lines.
Show threadlukas wirzMay 7, 2025
@jon I think there are different ideas, the complete re-gauging out of principle and building some connections into Finland for defense reasons. I'm very curios what will happen. (And how it helps me travel to Sweden.)
Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025

@lnwirz It won't help you travel to Sweden. Not any time soon anyway!

You can run to Haparanda *right now* with a broad gauge train, electrified with 25kV. Why does it not happen? VR and the Finnish government have not worked out how to operate it and with what subsidy. So nothing runs.

Fix that perhaps before we talk about re-gauging?

Show threadlukas wirzMay 7, 2025
@jon You're probably right of course, and with the current government there won't be much interest in having more people take trains. I'm kind of dreaming that it might be easier to have a connection between larger cities such as Oulu and Luleå, but yeah, probably that won't be the next step.
Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@lnwirz The best you'd get is Rovaniemi and or Oulu to Haparanda, change there for Luleå via Boden.
Show threadTom TomMay 7, 2025
@jon I am not even sure it is a good idea. The daytime tgv train takes 3.5 hours which is really quite an acceptable duration and if you are between 8 and 10 am but your flat is available after 4 pm, I am not quite sure this is practical.
Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@tomtom Err Bourg St Maurice is at least 4 hours 45 mins from Paris Gare de Lyon. But yes, it still probably doesn't make much sense.
Show threadTom TomMay 7, 2025

@jon I tested st jean de Maurienne, which maybe was not the best

It would maybe have a better chance as a fully packaged tour that takes care of transfer, luggage, ski pass and accomodations. Something like 'leave at 8 pm and be on the slope at 10 the next morning'... But it would in any case require sleeping cars, which I believe is not so easy nowadays.

Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@tomtom That's the central problem - no one has any spare sleeping cars to use for a service like this. And if they *did*, then I am quite sure it would be more economic to use them on some other route that's not seasonal instead! 🙂
Show threadRémi CardonaMay 7, 2025

@jon well, Compagnie des Alpes/Travelski *did* have a few night TGVs and Eurostars (the yellow ones) in the last few winter seasons, so they're not new to this.

*But*, Pegasus Train (touted as the "rail partner" is this venture) is a brand new company, incorporated in Sept '24, its CEO Guillaume de Marcillac is GM at Travelski.

So yeah, not sure what to make of this. It's a reputable company (Compagnie des Alpes) with a track record. But where the heck are they getting their rolling stock?!

Show threadJon WorthMay 7, 2025
@remi And they talk of sleeping cars and restaurant cars, NOT TGVs with seats running overnight. So I don't trust it. Not yet anyway.