sprigatito_breadMay 5, 2025

I avoid approaching women in public because I believe it's inappropriate. My parents say that it's a necessary skill. Who is right?

https://lemmy.world/post/29186882

I avoid approaching women in public because I believe it's inappropriate. My parents say that it's a necessary skill. Who is right? - Lemmy.World

The other day, my parents asked me (22M) if there were any women that I find attractive (I guess because they’re paranoid about me being gay lol) and I told them yes, there’s a fair number of women that I’ve seen in public that I’ve found attractive. They asked me, “Do you talk to any of them?” and I said “No??? It’s inappropriate to approach women in public unless you have business with them.” I told them that it is only appropriate for a man to talk to a woman who doesn’t know when the social situation is explicitly designed for meeting strangers—dating apps, clubs, meeting friends of friends, etc. In my view, cold approaching women you don’t know just because you’re attracted to them is harassment. My parents told me that I’m being ridiculous and making excuses because I’m nervous. They are adamant that I need to learn to approach women or else I will never find a partner. I told them that times have changed and this is disrespectful and potentially predatory behavior along the lines of unsolicited flirting and catcalling. Approaching women is a violation of their personal space and could make them feel very uncomfortable, especially if they feel like they don’t have an easy way out. My parents are almost 60 and they are very conservative, so they don’t exactly follow progressive discourse, and I feel like they’re super out of touch on this as a result. Particularly, my mom tends to strike up conversations with other women in public, and she’s skeptical when I tell her that I can’t do the same thing because I’m a man and would be viewed as a potential predator. But I also don’t get out much, which makes me second-guess how distorted my understanding of the social world is from reality. My parents are like a broken clock, and sometimes they DO have a point about something despite 90% of their opinions being insane. Maybe there is a more nuanced reality that I’m not picking up on. So I wanted to ask here. Are my parents out of touch? Am I out of touch? Are we both wrong? I want to know your opinion.

Show threadcattywampas

The unsatisfying answer: you’re both a little bit right.

You’re correct that times have changed somewhat. But I think it’s overkill to say that “approaching women at all unless you have business with them is disrespectful and borderline harassment”.

Of course, context matters a lot. Don’t bother women at their jobs, the bank is not a lady zoo. But in a social situation where you would expect to meet other people, it’s fine to strike up a conversation with strangers or even ask them out.

However, by your own admission you don’t get out much. So I’m assuming you don’t get a lot of situations like bars or parties where this would happen. So I would try networking in your community, develop some hobbies, go to functions where you might meet someone in this manner.

May 5, 2025 at 9:42pmWeb
Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 5, 2025

Also, if you’re ugly or poor, it’s always unwanted and disrespectful. Whether or not you’re ugly or even poor is up to them not you, so you have no way to ever know beforehand.

Women in general have made this so fucking difficult for men that it really should be mandatory for them to approach us at this point just to avoid issues.

I’m married, but worried about my sons getting in trouble for ever trying to approach a woman outside of a bar at this point, it seems the only place where asking a girl out randomly is still allowed at this point.

Show threadcattywampasMay 5, 2025
How have women made it difficult for men?
Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 5, 2025

The social expectation was that the man approaches, but now enough women have said that isn’t acceptable in so many situations that it’s no longer safe to do so in practically any situation.

Now men who want a relationship can essentially only find one by either being an asshole and asking when they shouldn’t, or using a dating app which is a massive waste of men’s time.

Show threadcattywampasMay 5, 2025
How is it unsafe for a man to approach a woman in a social situation?
Show threadReyaliMay 5, 2025

“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” —Margaret Atwood

I think the guy you’re responding to is well down the path of believing that it’s “unsafe” to be laughed at.

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 5, 2025

And you’re so far down a path that you think getting laughed at is an acceptable response to someone asking you out.

Which one is more toxic?

Show threadReyaliMay 5, 2025

I don’t think laughing at someone is an acceptable response to any person being respectful to another person, and your assumption that I am saying that from my comment shows more about you than me.

Anyone who would laugh at another person just because of how they look or how much money they appear to have is a flawed, unkind person.

Anyone who approaches another person and doesn’t respect if they set physical or verbal boundaries showing they don’t want to be approached is also flawed and either socially unaware/challenged or themselves unkind. And sometimes an easy way to get one of those people to go away is to laugh at them.

It’s unlikely for a cold approach to anyone asking for a date to be successful. Unlike 80 years ago, people aren’t looking for their first romantic connection to turn into life-long marriage; they actually want to have an established rapport with a person before the first date. So if someone just asks another person out with no lead up, or in certain settings, sometimes that will be so disconnected from social realities as to be absurd.

Anyway, regardless of the social intricacies of appropriate places to approach and/or ask out another, believing that women (or men) are a monolith who all will react the same way in a given situation is out of touch, disrespectful, and points to a lot of deep-seated sexism. I hope you can work that out before you pass it onto your son or he’s likely to have a much harder time finding a relationship.

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 6, 2025
And yet I don’t think raping someone is an acceptable response to being rejected and yet its still okay for women to treat all men like they might do it. So why should men not treat all women like they’re going to cause problems if they get approached?
Show threadJacksonLambMay 6, 2025
I get the feeling old mate here does not find himself in actual social situations with women very often.
Show threadklemptorMay 6, 2025

The social expectation was that the man approaches, but now enough women have said that isn’t acceptable in so many situations that it’s no longer safe to do so in practically any situation.

AKA, “A, B, and C aren’t appropriate, so D through Z aren’t safe either!”

Dude rather than accept some much-needed constraints, you’re having a hissy and throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 6, 2025

There are people in this thread saying even doing it as a bar isn’t okay anymore. Name one place where a man would be safe asking without potentially being called a creep even just for a polite inquiry. It sounds like there isn’t one anymore.

Not all women would react that way, but it sounds like there are enough women who think that’s an acceptable response even in a bar that it’s nonlonher longer viable.

Show threadStovetopMay 5, 2025

I do want to be sympathetic, but I have to be honest in that this seems like incel rhetoric to me.

Women are under no obligation to accept the advances of any random person in public, and framing that as a “them” problem is super disrespectful.

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 5, 2025
Nobody said they have to accept the advances. I’m saying that by restricting those advances in general, it should put the onus on women to make the advance. They can’t ask men to stop asking everywhere, then complain or be confused when men aren’t asking them out and this is something that is actively happening right now.
Show threadStovetopMay 5, 2025
I dunno, this may just be my own sensibilities clouding reality, but I don’t think the “onus” should be on anyone.
Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 5, 2025

Men are more and more frequently getting in trouble for even just asking, which means they need to stop entirely or risk getting in trouble.

Either women take responsibility for asking the men out, or accept that they’re not going to get asked out except by assholes who ignore the risks and are statistically upsetting a lot of women before they succeed.

Show threadunderreactingMay 5, 2025

I’ve never heard a woman complain or be confused about not being asked out by strangers.

It seems like your sources are a fair step into the manosphere, and you and your sons would have a lot to gain by distancing yourself from that kind of influence. Nothing is as unattractive as bitterness, and you are sounding dangerously close to bitter here, and your attitude will influence your sons approach to life and relationships.

Show threadfrog_brawlerMay 5, 2025

It’s been showing up on YouTube a lot in my feed all of a sudden. Like, past two weeks… some blonde lady men’s advocate trying to explain male behavior to women. She’s an interesting watch, seems more often correct than not (anecdotally).

There was a woman actually complaining about not getting cat-called anymore too. That one was a jaw dropper; but people like that are absolutely out there.

Show threadReyaliMay 5, 2025
The Dadvocate? Sounds like the YouTuber you’re describing.
Show threadfrog_brawlerMay 6, 2025
Emily W. King.
Show threadReyaliMay 6, 2025
Ah her. She has a bad habit of doing react videos that are just her posting other people’s comments while she just makes faces and nods at it and doesn’t add any meaningful commentary. I personally think that’s a shitty kind of content creator as they’re ultimately making money off of someone else’s work. And she occasionally has had a pretty shitty take. I think The Dadvocate is much better in this particular genre of content personally.
Show threadfrog_brawlerMay 6, 2025
I wonder why it’s showing up all of a sudden either way though. I must have watched something that brought this in. It’s not something I’ve really paid much attention to but something caught my attention with one of the videos.
Show threadReyaliMay 6, 2025

Yeah, they started showing up for my (male) partner a while back. I got really nervous that they were going to be the start of a slippery slope into some serious misogynistic content, and I’ve been monitoring that for probably a year now. Thankfully that doesn’t seem to have been the case so far!

There are many women out there who have gone so far as to be on the misandry side of things, and at least the two content creators we’ve named are calling that out. It’s valid and many of their points are solid. But it still seems like the algorithm would use them as a first step towards misogynistic content so it’s had me a little on edge.

Show threadfrog_brawlerMay 6, 2025

There are many women out there who have gone so far as to be on the misandry side of things, and at least the two content creators we’ve named are calling that out. It’s valid and many of their points are solid. But it still seems like the algorithm would use them as a first step towards misogynistic content so it’s had me a little on edge.

Yep! That’s exactly where I’m coming from. The type of content I’ve been watching recently has naturally shifted a little bit. For a long time, I didn’t use YouTube at all, but during Covid I found out that comic book collectors had a community on YouTube, and for the most part really only watched comic book related videos and fish-keeping / aquascape videos for about 4 years. Recently, (100% out of boredom) I started going back to the gym and have been watching various workout and nutritional videos instead of the comic book stuff that I watched for so long. I still watch videos about fishkeeping and aquascaping. I also watch Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s channel maybe once a month if I get tired of fish, nutrition and workout videos. I recently also came across a channel called “The Why Files” that I enjoy. The content from this channel is pretty similar to Ancient Aliens IMO.

Somewhere in that mix of aquarium fish, trying to be healthier, physics and historical conspiracy content, YouTube decided to inject Emily W. King. I don’t get it.

Show threadReyaliMay 6, 2025

Yeah… definitely could be the slippery slope we both see. Especially since comics and gym/workout/nutrition type videos likely target a more male demographic.

I mentioned my partner got those, then he actually subscribed to The Dadvocate. Now that I’m thinking about it I think he’s mentioned occasionally seeing Jordan Peterson pop up in his Shorts feed when he watches a ton in a row. He gives them a thumbs down and says not to show him that content, so maybe he’s the one keeping it the worse content at bay.

The worst thing though is that when those do pop up in his feed, they are some of Peterson’s few normal or even good takes (which we hate to admit that anything Jordan Peterson has to say might be good. But even a broken clock…). My partner still shuts that shit down because he knows there isn’t a good ending to that path.

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 5, 2025

You’re using anecdotal data, I have actually heard a woman say “why won’t he just ask me out” and that isn’t useful data either.

It keeps coming up in dating studies though, which are useful, and frequently point out that women are complaining or confused about why it’s happening.

Show threadJacksonLambMay 6, 2025
I think you will find that “why won’t he just ask me out” is not said about strangers on the bus etc.
Show threadCount042May 6, 2025
Why is Jackson Lamb arguing for anything nuanced or subtle?
Show threadJacksonLambMay 6, 2025
If you think “not being an incel” is nuanced or subtle, you belong in my team.
Show threadCount042May 7, 2025

No.

It needs more farts, cussing, and insults to everyone intelligences.

Although the belong on my team line is pretty good.

Show threadblitzenMay 5, 2025

Totally disagree on so many points. Women haven’t made things difficult, if anything men (historically) have done so because women haven’t been given a choice.

But the narrative that if you’re ugly or poor anything you do is unwanted is just not true. It’s an idea pushed by those in their parents basement justifying why they don’t have a girlfriend.

Teach your son that no means no, and when an uncomfortable woman might mean “no” without saying it, and he’ll be fine. Respect for the wishes of others takes care of 99.9999% of any trouble.

Show threadRed_CrystalMay 5, 2025
I agree. But the thing with women… Oh, I wish you could visit the post-Soviet countries. Especially Belarus, Russia, Ukraine… You would be amazed by what’s there.
Show threadieatpillowtagsMay 5, 2025
Oh and what’s there, subservient “trad wives”? Get out of your basement and stop blaming others for your problems.
Show threadRed_CrystalMay 6, 2025
Are you talking to me??? Let’s start with the fact that I am a woman. And what do you mean by “traditional women”?
Show threadgibmiserMay 5, 2025

Mr. Tate is that you?

Creepy

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 5, 2025

You’re just plain wrong. I’ve seen men yelled at for asking politely in “acceptable” social situations.

You can pretend it’s not happening, but that doesn’t change the fact that it occurs regularly.

The problem isn’t that No isn’t being respected, it’s that women are getting offended at even being asked.

Show threadieatpillowtagsMay 5, 2025

If someone yelled about asking politely in an acceptable social situation, then they were wrong. That is not normal.

That being said, given your prior comment, which just screams “incel, mgtow, etc”, I’m gonna go ahead and doubt you saw what you say you did.

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 5, 2025

It is a regular occurrence. Regular enough that it’s been reflected in popular media for decades. They even make entire movies about “boy gets rejected by popular girl, boy transforms himself to win her over, boy decides he doesn’t need her anymore because she’s mean”

Are you honestly so naive that you think those initial rejections don’t happen in real life? Everyone saw them at high school, and everyone saw them even more on social media when said girl spreads it around to cyberbully the boy even more. It’s been more than 20 years since I was at high school, and even when we didn’t have cellphones that shit still happened, and it didn’t stop at University either.

Show threadieatpillowtagsMay 6, 2025

So your examples are “things that happened to me in high school”, and “movies which are obviously real”?

Again I’m going to have to ask you to leave your basement and interact with real people. You are wrong.

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 6, 2025

Do you think highschool isn’t real?

We aren’t talking about 40 year olds dating here grandm.

Show threadidiomaddictMay 6, 2025
I think high school is irrelevant when talking about the behavior of men and women, because it’s attended by children. In my high school, matching socks were actively uncool and would get you made fun of- making a complaint about how the world cares about your ingenuity in mismatching socks based on my experience there would be more reflective of my personal history than of larger society
Show threadieatpillowtagsMay 6, 2025
Sorry I thought we were talking about “talking to women in appropriate situations” as an adult. So no, high school is obviously not relevant.
Show threadJandroDelSolMay 6, 2025
High school is it’s own environment, and it’s pretty far removed from the adult world. I would not take the drama you experienced as gospel.
Show threadAcratopègeMay 9, 2025

> entire movies about “boy gets rejected by popular girl, boy transforms himself to win her over, boy decides he doesn’t need her anymore because she’s mean”

@BlameThePeacock can you name any? I've never seen such a plot.

@asklemmy

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 9, 2025

It’s a major plotline in napoloean dynamite, and it’s the plotline for a side character in legally blonde

I assume you’re old enough to know those movies.

Show threadblitzenMay 6, 2025

Anyone, of either gender, would react negatively to someone interacting with them with the energy and perspective you’re displaying here.

If you think that type of reaction is common, I suggest looking at the common denominator.

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 6, 2025

What the fuck does my energy level have to do with anything.

I’ve never had to ask a girl out in my life, I’ve been married to only my second relationship for more than half my life, and both ladies approached me.

Show threadblitzenMay 6, 2025
If you have to ask what your energy/demeanor has to do with women being comfortable with you, you should probably be quiet on this subject.
Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 6, 2025
Or maybe you should stop, because you’re making about as much sense as a potato.
Show threadblitzenMay 6, 2025

I will, because I’m picking up that I’m making you uncomfortable.

Take note.

Show threadbuffysummersMay 5, 2025

I’m married

That poor woman.

Show threadRed_CrystalMay 5, 2025
Let’s not attribute this to all women. This is both imposed and from the consumer culture of the patriarchal system. Less often, when it is radical feminism - here it is simply hatred of a man simply because he is a man… I am a girl, and I often see radical feminism… Especially in the post-Soviet space… It’s a wild horror… Especially those raised by mercantile princesses… If I were relaxing in a bar, I definitely wouldn’t want to see a man I didn’t know at that time. Why do you need parks, cafeterias, libraries and just the embankment?
Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 5, 2025

You just made it worse, you’re saying that there’s nowhere a man can ask safely.

Like I said, it should be mandatory for women to be the one to approach at this point.

Show threadRed_CrystalMay 5, 2025
Where did I say that? There are drunk people in the bar, and they don’t always want to meet you. Yes, there are those who are only thirsty for acquaintances, but often they themselves will take the initiative. I suggested a list - cafes, parks, embankments, etc. It’s not always pleasant to talk to people who have been drinking, especially when it’s not part of the group.
Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 5, 2025

If you walk up to random people in a cafe, park, or embankment (really?) and ask for their numbers, you could get a positive response, but it’s equally likely that a women (or even a group) will start yelling at you for doing so.

That’s what I’m saying about nowhere to ask safely. Some women will be totally fine with being approached, and others will not, but there is ZERO way to indicate to others that information.

We need to bring back the whole gay handkerchief system and adapt it to the whole population, If everyone wore an accessory or object that indicates your willingness(or not) to be approached it would make the whole situation 100% better. Like a stoplight party, but all the time and with slightly less impact on your whole wardrobe.

Show threadklemptorMay 6, 2025

If you walk up to random people in a cafe, park, or embankment (really?) and ask for their numbers

So I think this is the disconnect. This isn’t window shipping; your trying to connect with another human being. You need to take the time to talk with her, see if she shows interest by engaging and encouraging the conversation, and if there’s any commonality or chemistry between you.

Then, if you think there could be something there, offer to give your number rather than ask for hers. It will help her feel safer with you, and she can choose whether or not to accept and if she takes it, she can choose whether or not to follow up. It puts the onus on her to move things forward.

Show threadBlameThePeacockMay 6, 2025

I’m 40, and married. This isn’t about me.

You still don’t get it through, you say talk to them first, but thay limits when you can even start a conversation to very limited locations and certainly doesn’t include your suggestions around a park or embankment.

Show threadklemptorMay 6, 2025

A couple of things:

  • I’m not the ‘park or embankment’ person, I was just using your response to that person to point out why cold-approaching someone for their digits is a bad idea.
  • I’m 43 and married, not sure why that should be relevant? Never meant to imply it was about you; I was using the ‘general you’.
  • The whole point is quality over quantity, which is why it’s in both parties’ interest to chat a bit first and see if there’s potential. It’s a small investment of time and effort to see if there’s anything there that’s worth pursuing. Some guys seem to think it’s a numbers game - that if you just shoot your shot (again, the general you) with a bunch of women, some percentage of them will land. That’s a recipe for frustration. I would never just give my number to a guy who asked for it out of the blue, and I’d reckon most women wouldn’t either.
  • You keep talking about limited locations, but I disagree that they’re limited. Look for women where people go to socialize - bars, live music, book clubs, hobby events (e.g., group hikes if you’re a hiker). And this is the perfect venue to casually chat with the woman and feel out the situation.

    • I don’t know what to tell you man. There are people all through this thread telling you it’s not as dire and impossible as you seem to think it is.

    Show threadRed_CrystalMay 6, 2025

    He doesn’t need an introduction. He’s married. But he teaches a 22 year old guy… It feels like he’s not 40, but 60… And the only place to meet someone is a bar… 🤦🏼‍♀️In different cultures and different countries everything is different. You need to study it first. And he was told directly that I, for example, do not talk to drunk people. Unfortunately, such is the society, and it is too nasty when drunk.

    That is, if they refuse, then there are reasons for this. And it doesn’t mean that everyone is obliged to give each other a phone number… God, 2025… Who gives them out anyway? This is personal information that is not advisable to distribute. You have nicknames in IG, Reddit, Twitter, FB and Telegram… And a bunch of others.

    Show threadRed_CrystalMay 6, 2025
    You are absolutely right. What kind of idiot would just walk up to you and take your number? Like if a girl just came up to you and you’d react normally? Even without knowing who she is and why she needs your number… 🤦🏼‍♀️ The man is clearly strange and obsessed with phone numbers…
    Show threadReyaliMay 6, 2025

    there is ZERO way to indicate to others that information.

    Ah, you’re getting to a challenge that women have faced forever: “If I reject this man, will he decide to attack or kill me?” (Sources: 1, 2, 3, 4,5, 6)

    Or just in general the concept that’s been named “Schrodingers Rapist.”

    It would be a whole lot safer for many people if there was an automatic way to see into someone’s soul to know what they are like and what they are capable of. Are they a rapist? Do they have the potential to be? Will they reject me violently? Will they publicly humiliate me?

    None of us can know those things. The best we can do is to try to establish strong social skills and pattern recognition, and work to avoid the situations that put us in danger (whether physical, social, or emotional). It’s hard and there’s no silver bullet.

    While you want to put the onus on women to minimize the risk of a man being publicly humiliated, you’re ignoring the realities that women are dealing with the exact same kind of uncertainties (except statistically speaking, with much worse outcomes). There isn’t an easy answer here and it’s not one that falls on just one gender to resolve.

    Modern-Day Horrors of Women Rejecting Men: Another Dangerous Reality for Women

    Reading Time: 3 minutesThe recent Idaho College murders have opened a wider hole in the very old and serious argument about how dangerous it is for women to reject men in this day and age. Bryan Kohberger a criminology student who was accused of allegedly murdering four Idaho students during the month of November where...

    The Monitor