Mastodawn

Mark Prior 3d ago

Wow, this is a rip-snorting interview with @pluralistic - you, sir, have got great metaphors. Well done. This needs to be on every single NZ MP's listing list: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018985178/feature-interview-how-meta-and-x-will-eat-themselves

Feature interview: how Meta and X will eat themselves

This is how huge tech platforms like Google and Meta roll; first, they're good to their users; then they abuse them to make things better for business customers, then they exploit their business customers to squeeze out every last bit of value for themselves. Then, they die. That's how author, activist and journalist Cory Doctorow sees tech's slow-motion collapse. He's in New Zealand to meet readers and talk about his latest book about Silicon Valley's big bet on AI called Picks and Shovels.

RNZ

Ko Simon toku ingoa

@lightweight @pluralistic thank you for sharing this. I find it particularly amusing that he was allowed to say “enshittification” on RNZ repeatedly.

@SimonCHulse @pluralistic I'm pretty sure that 'shit' is AOK on the air in Aotearoa. Seems pretty mild now, even. And, heck, 'enshittification' was given social license by being selected as word-of-the-year by both the US Dialectic Society and the Macquarie Dicionary in the past 2 years. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

Enshittification - Wikipedia

Ko Simon toku ingoa

@lightweight @pluralistic I know, but it’s still surreal, I grew up with dad working there, and he often talked about their rules including “no swearing.”

John Carlsen 🇺🇸🇳🇱🇪🇺3d ago

@SimonCHulse @lightweight @pluralistic

Sometimes I miss the prohibition on seven dirty words...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words

Seven dirty words - Wikipedia

VelteropⓐⓊ🪂🇪🇺🇳🇱🇬🇧🇩🇪3d ago

@johnlogic @SimonCHulse @lightweight @pluralistic
I don't think I've seen these words in the long list of proscribed words for scientific and scholarly communication, though.

@johnlogic @SimonCHulse @lightweight @pluralistic What's the rule on combinations? Like shitfucker.

@johnlogic @SimonCHulse @lightweight @pluralistic Don't forget "fart," "turd," and "twat."

The landmark 95bfm "Fuck-knuckles, Cock and Piss, Balls" ruling may have had some effect even given Bosom FM's target audience differs somewhat from Natrad's, that and the whole Word of the Year thing.

https://www.bsa.govt.nz/decisions/all-decisions/jeremy-evans-complainant-campus-radio-bfm-limited/#searched-for-95bfm

@lightweight @pluralistic

Evans and Campus Radio bFM Limited - 2021-039 (24 August 2021)

Broadcasting Standards Authority

Niall in Raglan

@zl2tod that is a wonderful judgement to read. Thanks for the share!

I did try and find a recording of the offending PSA without luck.

Those interested could listen here until they hear it:

https://95bfm.com/

95bFM

95bFM The originator

95bFM

Doc Edward Morbius ⭕3d ago

@lightweight @pluralistic Mild quibble: Google did come up with Gmail on its own. Or at least through a 20% project (that is, it wasn't a management objective).

But other than that, novel product development has been quite poor.

@dredmorbius @pluralistic I didn't hear that bit - will have to re-listen. Back in the early days, when Google was 'engineering-led' they did some impressive stuff - most of us thought they might be the exception to the rules (set by MS, Apple, Oracle, IBM, etc.)... sadly, though, in the intervening years, we've been well-and-truly disabused of that optimism.

Doc Edward Morbius ⭕3d ago

@lightweight Google definitely tweak the heck out of products. But in terms of either launching new game-changers, on the scale of Gmail, Maps (aquisition), Youtube (aquisition), Android (aquisition), or ... come to think of it, Chrome was also home-grown, no?, they've an awfully weak record.

(Gemini, Google Books, and Translate are some other successful launches, though they've had relatively limited reach. Gemini's still in early days, so it could prove a breakout yet.)

All the more so for revenue-generating products, of which Doubleclick / Adsense remains the sole cash machine.

List of products for those interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products.

List of Google products - Wikipedia

@dredmorbius Chromium was originally built on Webkit, which was built by Apple on (the KDE project's) open source KHTML... They later built the 'Blink' rendering engine to consolidate their control, but that was much later.

Doc Edward Morbius ⭕3d ago

@lightweight I'd forgotten that. So yeah, a fork effectively of Konqueror.

(Which is an interesting browser still, on *nix systems.)

@dredmorbius bingo.

Cory Doctorow 3d ago

@dredmorbius @lightweight chrome is built on webkit

@pluralistic @dredmorbius I believe they've now moved to the 'blink' rendering engine, which was a fork of webkit, apparently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blink_(browser_engine)

Blink (browser engine) - Wikipedia

Jonathan Dowland 3d ago

@lightweight @pluralistic @dredmorbius WebKit itself was a fork of KHTML, in the dim and distant

@jmtd @pluralistic @dredmorbius yup. (mentioned that in another fork of this discussion: https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@lightweight/114425326169750480)

Dave Lane :flag_tino: 🇳🇿 (@lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz)

@dredmorbius@toot.cat Chromium was originally built on Webkit, which was built by Apple on (the KDE project's) open source KHTML... They later built the 'Blink' rendering engine to consolidate their control, but that was much later.

Mastodon - NZOSS

I've always figured that the exposure of the UKUSA Echelon dictionary computing apparatus by Nicky Hager's landmark book Secret Power led to the commercialisation of the technology in the form of Google.

@dredmorbius @pluralistic

Cory Doctorow 3d ago

@dredmorbius @lightweight a Hotmail clone!

@pluralistic @dredmorbius which, in turn, was a 'RocketMail' clone. (which became Yahoo! Mail after Yahoo! acquired them) Remember, too that Microsoft acquired Hotmail. BigTech isn't very innovative.

@lightweight @pluralistic @dredmorbius I also remember when Microsoft moved Hotmail off BSD onto Windows servers using 4 times the hardware and it went down for a week.

@rupert @pluralistic @dredmorbius hah, yes, I also remember enjoying that immensely.

Doc Edward Morbius ⭕3d ago

@pluralistic I mean, sure, in a sense, but hardly the first Webmail service, and one that went far beyond what existed: Hotmail, Yahoo Mail, AOL, etc. Arguably even COM-COM.

I think you can give Google this one and a few others I'd listed.

FWIW, I do consider Gmail to be the Beginning Of The End. Prior to Gmail, Google had services which did not require logging in. AFTER Gmail, Google was something you logged in to. I had extreme qualms about that, and though I eventually did create a few Gmail accounts, I've all but entirely curtailed use of them.

Google now not only has logins, but goes wherever you do, is worn on, or in, your body, listens and watches, etc., etc., etc.

(They're not the only one, natch. They are one of the oldest and by far the biggest.)

Wow. A website that just allows me to download the mp3? surprisedpikachu.jpg
❤️
CC: @pluralistic@mamot.fr

@nigel @pluralistic they used to be even better, offering the option of downloading podcasts in OGG format (prior to MP3's Fraunhoffer patent expiring). Sadly, they've dropped now, even though it's now mostly symbolic.

@nigel I recall when @SimonCHulse's father (who worked at RNZ for a long time) once told me they supported OGG format podcasts due to an interview Kim Hill did with RMS years ago - apparently she was quite compelled by his arguments and encouraged RNZ to suitably align the digital artefacts it was offering under the auspices of its public funding.

Ko Simon toku ingoa

@lightweight @nigel @pluralistic can confirm, in the early days of that site, I remember asking dad what .OGG was.

Assuming your Dad is Richard he very much built the Radio NZ digital presence with code the organisation ended up owning but essentially threw away in some terribly ill-advised pivot to proprietary systems.

@lightweight @nigel @pluralistic

@zl2tod yes, indeed. Like so many NZ organisations (yes, Stuff.co.nz, I'm looking at you. National Business Review, you too. And ITP? Shame on you. There are so many others). @SimonCHulse @nigel @pluralistic

Ko Simon toku ingoa

@zl2tod @lightweight @nigel @pluralistic yep, he was laid off after over 35 years of loyal service.

@SimonCHulse yes, that was a bitter betrayal. @zl2tod @nigel @pluralistic

Aye, it seemed like a shit move from this distance.

And they are hiring a lot of not very good people at over-inflated salaries too.

@zl2tod @SimonCHulse I don't have any insight into that, although I'm dismayed at the ineptitude and lack-of-commitment-to-values of most businesses, organisations, and gov't agencies these days.

Ko Simon toku ingoa

@lightweight @zl2tod He fought against bureaucrats in the late 90s/early 00’s who were saying things like “this internet thing will never catch on” and practically single-handedly (at first) dragged RNZ kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

And he won Qantas Media Awards “best media website in Australasia” several times and then was laid off anyway. Utter crying shame.

@SimonCHulse yes, it was very sad to see and very short-sighted. He and I talked about it a bit. @zl2tod

Ko Simon toku ingoa

@lightweight @zl2tod now he’s happily working at Ngā Taonga Sound and Vision NZ, and loving it, from what I’ve heard.

Colin Jackson 3d ago

@nigel @SimonCHulse @lightweight @pluralistic I recall Richard telling me that there was a computer whose sole job was to convert sound files to Ogg format. He called it the Oggulator.

Ko Simon toku ingoa

@ThisCJ @nigel @lightweight @pluralistic sounds like my dad. He also named all the servers in RNZ after Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy characters.

Niall in Raglan

@SimonCHulse god help you if you had to login to Slartibartfast in a hurry!

Niall in Raglan

@lightweight thanks for the share. I'll listen to this as I (attempt to) run tomorrow morning.