Natanox
db2I felt this one.
Me too. 🤣
fossilesqueMe, yesterday, tinkering with remote desktop.
devfuuuI still remember the old times before xorg.confs were modular. The truly hard times.
Remember when /bin/sh was the default shell, when you had to build from source, grep wasn’t a native package.
We made fire from a friction drill. Knapped our own blades from flint.
Simpler times.
… I don’t remember building grep, nor do I remember a time before bash.
Are… Are you God?
I was there when the dark magic was written.
Genuinely curious. When was your first time touching Linux/GNU?
'94 but I was on Usenet when I heard about it first. That would’ve been around '93. Me and a buddy were pretty nerdy and his dad worked at Bell Labs and they got a couple floppies. That was my start. It was just the kernel and Gnu Utilities. Literally Linux+Gnu. Shortly after that I grabbed SLS Linux, that became Slack. Then Debian, I was in the listserve when Ian would still answer questions and fix bugs. I hope he’s found the peace now he was searching for in life.
I’ve contributed to quite a few open source projects over the years, nothing foundational. I didn’t really know anybody from the old old days. Just a geeky kid lucky enough to have a computer and a modem at the time. I am very privileged to have grown up when I did and where I did.
I don’t envy the kids coming up now. Completely abstracted away from their systems to the point where they actually think it’s magic. I had a very junior engineer ask me how to print a pdf the other week at work. I can’t imagine how modern education and tech have failed them. I hope I’m wrong but it feels like LLMs are talking away curiosity and hacking. I’m sure that’s just me being a crusty old bastard though.
I’m close, 93 also I think, slack on a 386.
Got stuck in vi, had to reboot.
Remember thinking how awesome 6 virtual consoles were. I think my tmux addiction came from there.
Lol! I thought vi was generally a new layer of the OS, like a sun terminal. Ended up creating 10 files containing exit, or quit, or ^c, until I hit the escape key and the cursor changed…then I rebooted from frustration and actually read the man page.
Rage quitting vi/vim really is a right of passage.
Remember ed?
Do you remember…
When someone first showed you tab completion?
Like absolute fucking wizardry man, like a Jedi Master appeared in front of you with the knowledge of the ancients.
Before that instant in your life you were typing out full pathnames, like some fucking schmuck.
And from then on, everything changed, forever.
Absolutely. Bash was such a game changer with history too, and ctrl+r
You mean I can search recent history and get a recently used command?!?!?!?!?!
Hahahaha I forgot the poster symlinked vi to ed.
I dearly miss lilo, it was the best bootloader. But then everyone started using grub which I hated with a passion. So glad that there are so much better options nowadays.
Honestly, I’m still worried about getting pilloried for this. Systemd-boot on BTRFS with snapshotting is awesome. Bonus points if your system is entirely in initrd.
I was there, Gandalf, I was there when the modelines of xf86config failed…
John RichardFunny how vocal Wayland haters used to be until they tried Wayland.
Do you really think ppl don’t break their wayland setup? For example, some systems don’t get a mouse cursor in wayland umless they switch the cursor to software rendering. To do that, they must often set an env var for the wayland process, but there is no standard way to do it. Half of them starts tinkering with their PAM and the others with their .profile . Sometimes this breaks every way to log in.
I’m sure some people do, but for the most part it is much better than X in that regard.
Dunno. Me and a friend had issues with Wayland, so we switched to X11 and that’s already like forty percent of Linux community.
talI mean, there was a point in time, quite some years back, when I had to do up modelines, but Xorg can generally handle things without an xorg.conf.
It has improved, but most developers working on Xorg have moved to Wayland. I’m not saying Xorg isn’t still useful at times, like forwarding over SSH, but Wayland has more isolation & security considerations, which can be seen as both an advantage & limitation. However, Wayland compositors have implemented most controls & protocols now to fill in the gaps.
Still gathering up my courage to make the switch. The better security / isolation between apps is a huge feature for me. But porting all of my shitty xorg-specific scripts and hacks will be a pain.
Still won’t handle popup menu correctly, still won’t allow copy/paste with CLI programs without using an extra, implementation-specific, piece of software, still won’t allow some window to correctly detect their position.
Wayland might be interesting, but between blind haters and blind supporters, it’s really annoying. Forcing people to switch while some basic features are “mostly working” is not helping.
still won’t allow copy/paste with CLI programs without using an extra, implementation-specific, piece of software
What are you referring to here? I haven’t noticed anything out of place on KDE regarding copy/paste…
vim can’t use the kde/wayland clipboard to copy/past properly, you have to script it through something. I’ve read it’s related to non foreground app not being able to manipulate the clipboard or something close to that, which a CLI app will never be.
There are “solutions”, mostly overriding vim behavior to write/read from that dedicated program, though. It’s not a show stopper, but not every software allow this kind of flexibility.
I managed to work through all those issues using XDG portals & necessary software/configurations when using Hyprland & Arch, but I’d think that major distros & DEs also had solved them as part of their installs. Maybe I’m wrong. It is sad if they haven’t, because they are solvable. If this was 2 years ago, I would understand the frustrations more, but if there are still issues then I am more frustrated at whoever is packaging the crap & sending it to end users without thinking to address these problems.
Every config: get it to a place that works and create a .WORKING backup copy
ohshit604professional tip for those who decided to rock Debian on a laptop with two GPU’s.
Envycontrol will take the headache away from manually configuring your xorg & xrandr.
…who… IN THE FUCK!!! Reads Debian docs?
Arch are the true Linux docs, maybe Gentoo docs, worst case Ubuntu forums.
Run a ton of Debian, only time I check their docs is when I’m trying to remember what the current stable release is called.
mandb -su
I do that. Why not? Best source on Debian specific stuff.
…who… IN THE FUCK!!! Reads Debian docs?
How else does one learn the distro they use without consulting the documentation?
Like I said, I use debian docs to install.
After that arch docs are INCREDIBLY thorough, they cover almost all of linux and are far more exhaustive than any other.
Like I said, I use debian docs to install.
You didn’t say that, you said.
only time I check their docs is when I’m trying to remember what the current stable release is called.
After that arch docs are INCREDIBLY thorough
Yeah I wouldn’t trust the documentation for another distribution on my install, you do you though.
I’ve had some good experience in the past. All the Debian specific information was properly documented in the packages README files.
I agree.
But honestly, how much Debian specific anything is there outside the install?
In fact debian is branded as the most boring vanilla distro there is, for good reason.
Almost everything Linux you do is better documented in the arch docs imho.
Honestly, Linux has progressed immensely the past decade and I only read documentation when setting up servers these days. I’m mostly an Arch derivative desktop user but I still love Debian on the server side.
The Debian specific stuff are usually in the service description (email, web, ssh servers), and they are quite nice.
Debian is godly for servers, stable, robust, and most software is supported one way or another.
Also none of that redhat bs like their management stack, or Ubuntu and snap.
Their only weakness was they were far dated on kernels and software and that changed over the last 5 years, they’re often ahead of ubuntu now.
My first choice is always freebsd if I don’t need kvm or docker and the software is there, arch if it’s more workstationy, Gentoo if I’m in a fun mood (mained it for years but it kept breaking), and finally Debian if I just want something that works.
Even with Debian, wrote an lxc-based stack so it’s often just a base for arch for fun and Ubuntu for work. This is where it truly shines.
Possibly linuxThe Debian docs are pretty solid. Not as large as Arch but still just as useful
Can it force apps to use iGPU when dGPU is on? It’s one of the things I miss from windows and couldn’t figure out on linux
It has this hybrid option, that’s about it from what I know.
Set graphics mode to hybrid and enable fine-grained power control:
sudo envycontrol -s hybrid --rtd3Ah so it’s about the same-ish functionality as
supergfxctl and system76-power it seems. For me I’m searching for more granular control. e.g. if I’m gaming with dGPU-primary I might want to move browser and such to iGPU to free up dGPU VRAM, or just to put it to lower power states because spinning this behemoth up for youtube videos seems inefficient. Otherwise, when I’m in iGPU primary, it sometimes misdetects when to activate the dGPU and chokes the poor little thing down or, again, spins up the dGPU needlessly.
Did they finally stop with that crap? Having 4k on a display size where it makes no sense but needs a dedicated GPU because iGPU were not good enough then.
A new Linux meme? I don’t believe it
Y’all have Desktop Environments?
thenextguyY’all are still using xorg?
RoseI am definitely going to need my morning coffee. I see the word “Y’all” and I’m somehow thinking “shouldn’t it be Xall if we’re taking about X11? Wait what’s wrong with my brain”
X trama
I remember when loading a GUI in *Nix systems would get you judged by your peers…
Yeah but that was before Hi-Res images of BBTs.
GitHub - cosmos72/twin: Text mode window environment. A terminal emulator and multiplexer with mouse support, overlapped windows and networked clients. Text-mode equivalent of X11 server + VNC server
Text mode window environment. A terminal emulator and multiplexer with mouse support, overlapped windows and networked clients. Text-mode equivalent of X11 server + VNC server - cosmos72/twin
I’m pretty sure it is because nobody knows. Xorg is a massive project that has tons and tons of duck tape.
Seriously guys…I came here to get away from you. You have ALL of Mastodon for this
OwlFor what ?
Ummmm, meme is in the name of the comm.
Might I direct you to
You can block comms in a bunch of different ways, I’ll leave that as an exercise for the reader.
Linux - Lemmy.World
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You can just visit a different community, but it won’t help. Lion King Linux memes will follow you to the ends of the earth.