Joachim3d ago

Are you f* kidding me, Apple?!

After a long time, I filed another bug report using Feedback Assistant because the bug was bad enough that it’s worth the effort of writing it all down.

When uploading a sysdiagnose (or probably any other attachments) you get the usual privacy notice that there is likely a lot of private and other sensitive info in those log files. It’s not a great feeling but it is what it is with diagnostic data and I mostly trust the folks at Apple to treat it with respect and I trust the Logging system to redact the most serious bits.

However, when filing a feedback today a noticed a new addition to the privacy notice:

"By submitting, you […] agree that Apple may use your submission to [train] Apple Intelligence models and other machine learning models."

WTF? No! I don’t want that. It’s extremely shitty behavior to a) even ask me this in this context where I entrust you with *my* sensitive data to help *you* fix your shit to b) hide it in the other privacy messaging stuff and to c) not give me any way to opt out except for not filing a bug report.

Do you really need *more* reasons for developers not to file bug reports? Are the people who decided to do this really this ignorant about the image Apple‘s bug reporting process has in the community? How can you even think for a single second that this is an acceptable idea?

So, WTF, Apple?!

Show threadboredsquirrel1d ago

@cocoafrog

I mean it makes sense to train models on issues and solutions for user problems. Then they can use AI assistants in the future

Show threadJoachim
@Rhababerbarbar not sure whether you are serious or sarcastic. 😅
Apr 19 at 9:30pmWeb
Show threadboredsquirrel1d ago

@cocoafrog

I mean this is a legit use case from their point of view. And dedicated training data is also way better than the random crap that generalistic LLMs are trained on.

Totally valid if you dont want your interaction in there though, so in the "oh we are Apple, the privacy heros" they should make that opt-out.

Btw, why do you use Apple if you care?

Show threadJoachim22h ago

@Rhababerbarbar because Apple was much better in the past about making these „it would be nice to have this data“ vs. „we need to respect the user and let them make this decision“ trade-offs.

They used to be much better about putting user choice first. And they still are in other areas, eg around location data. You still need to allow all of Apple‘s own apps to use your device‘s location data as well, just like any other app. And privacy used to be highly valued by Apple and I think it wasn’t just marketing speak (though they got much better at marketing their privacy stance).

So while I I clearly see all the signs of enshittification in the last decade or so I still think they are better than the alternative and hold them to a higher standard. But it keeps getting harder and harder to make that argument.

Show threadboredsquirrel18h ago

@cocoafrog

Their software is not FOSS, and their hardware is very or entirely locked down. Google Pixel + AOSP + GrapheneOS modifications would not be possible in the slightest

Show threadJoachim18h ago

@Rhababerbarbar yeah, but those modifications aren’t valuable to me. I prefer a system that’s well integrated and has good UX and respects my choices. Apple was good in all those in the past and I agreed with most of the trade offs between reducing complexity and allowing configurability.

But has been getting worse and worse.

But I don’t think a Google-based Android is an alternative at all and I’m not at the point yet where I want to spend the effort to configure my own.

Show threadboredsquirrel14h ago

@cocoafrog

Well Apple having a single ecosystem and being product-first doesnt help here. They have a lot of stuff like Airdrop or iMessage that can be replaced but not easily

GrapheneOS is not google-based, but that comes at the "cost" of no integrated cloud storage, backup, transfer etc.

Also small things like a well integrated and working password manager, #KeepassDX and #Bitwarden are okay replacements, probably more secure but less easy

Airdrop can be replaced with #Localsend