return2ozmaTrump signs executive order requiring proof of citizenship to register to vote in federal elections
jordanlundSolution:
Motor-voting registration in all states through the DMV. You already have to prove citizenship for Real ID. Make sure everyone getting a state ID is also registered to vote.
Then you do 100% vote by mail.
Republicans: “Wait, not like that…”
FringeTheory999A lot of people don’t have IDs or licenses, they cost money, you have to take time off of work to get them, which also costs money, and a lot of people have barriers to getting ID if they lack supporting paperwork, like a birth certificate, bills in your name to prove address, three forms if ID, etc. heck lots of people don’t even have an address at all. People who don’t have easy access to supporting paperwork, who don’t have addresses, or can’t afford fees are all allowed to vote. This cuts a lot of the most vulnerable people in the country out of the democratic process, which is why the righties are always pushing for this stuff. They’d rather that the people who stand to lose the most from right wing policies be unable to vote against those policies.
I hear that argument a lot and I don’t buy it. You need to have valid ID to do EVERYTHING in our society.
For example:
To get a job.
To get a bank account.
To file for unemployment benefits.
To see a doctor.
To drive legally.
To buy a car.
To rent a car.
To rent a hotel room.
To rent an apartment.
To buy a house.
To have insurance.
To file taxes.
To fill a prescription.
To buy alcohol.
To buy tobacco.
To enter a weed shop (where it’s legal).
To buy M rated video games.
So you have to convince me that someone doesn’t have ID, doesn’t do ANY of that, and yet still somehow wants to vote?
I don’t buy that argument, maybe a handful of people, maybe the Amish, but not enough people to matter in an election.
It is understandably difficult to believe these things when they are outside your realm of experience. These people exist, and in greater numbers than you are likely to realize, whether you believe that these people exist in great enough numbers to sway elections is neither here nor there. They have a right to vote and should be included (though it is worth noting that congressional elections are often decided by very narrow margins). There have been plenty of these people in the communities i’ve lived in, and at various periods in my life I’ve been one of these people. You’d be amazed at how you can get by without ID if you have to. A lot of the things you’ve listed don’t actually require a state issued ID, you might think they would, but there’s almost always a workaround. You don’t need it to get a job, only a decent job for a reputable employer. most will ignore legalities in my experience, if they think they can get away with it. You don’t need ID to fill a prescription, just your birth date. ID is not necessary to apply for benefits, most homeless people don’t have proper ID and are still eligible. ID is not necessary to buy a used car from the owner, nor to file taxes, nor to rent a sublet or a room in someone’s home. Lots of people don’t have bank accounts, they use cash or buy prepaid debit cards for things that you can’t pay with cash. You don’t need ID to visit a clinic, You ABSOLUTELY don’t need ID to go to a weed shop. I’ve visited many and have never been asked for one. Heck, I haven’t been carded for alcohol in probably 30 years. So yes, you can do most of these things without ID, it’s just a pain in the ass. Some of the things on your list are just luxuries. What you can’t do without ID you learn to live without, which now includes voting I guess.
Again, I really, sincerely doubt that and have seen no actual evidence to the contrary. Hypotheticals and mathematical models, but no actual evidence people are disenfrachised in this way.
We do have evidence that they are disenfrachised in OTHER ways, limiting polling locations, polling hours, blocking people from supporting voters in long lines with water, etc etc etc. All of which can be addressed with 100% vote by mail.
These aren’t hypotheticals my good man, these are real things that happen to real people. The fact that it hasn’t happened to YOU does not make them “hypothetical”. You’ve never seen a baby capybara, does that make baby capybara’s hypothetical?You don’t have any reason to believe what you do, it’s an article of faith, a belief maintained despite contradictory evidence. Something has fallen so far outside of the realm of your personal experience that you cannot fathom or accept it. You’re basically an economic flat earther, sure people have used “mathematical models” to determine that the earth is a sphere for thousands of years, but it sure looks flat to you. Sure people have used “mathematical models” to show that this sort of disenfranchisement exists, but you’ve never known a poor person, hence you have no reason to believe it exists. The thing that’s neat about reality is that it’s real whether you choose to look at it or not. by recent estimates 11% of eligible voters don’t have adequate ID (via. Brennen Law Institute) and as many as 18% of eligible voters over the age of 65 (via. the American Bar Association), with low income and minority groups being disproportionately affected. You can choose to verify those numbers, or not, you can choose to believe the numbers you’ve verified, or not, either way it doesn’t impact the realities that people, who are not you, face. Personally I have faith that you will continue to believe whatever you find most comforting. my only question is this, if you do not value the accounts of those affected, nor the word of experts who study such things, and you do not trust statistics or “mathematical models”, then how short of actually experiencing it yourself would you know whether it is true or not?
The hypothetical is “ZOMG thousands of people are being prevented from voting over this!”
No, they aren’t. There’s no evidence that thousands of people are so disengaged from society that they don’t have legal ID, all the things they need legal ID for, and yet somehow still want to vote.
There’s ANECDOTAL evidence, one person here, another person there, a 98 year old lady who really wants to vote but gosh darn it her birth certificate burned up in a fire in 1946, but no evidence there is mass disenfranchisement.
The numbers claiming “millions” are based on statistics, not actual reality, and when you have to have basic ID to get a job, have a bank account, rent a place, etc. etc. etc. I do not buy the “millions” number and I do not buy that they are that detached from society and still have a desire to vote.
Noxywho cares if it’s as low as 50 people? if they have the right to vote, imposing a new requirement for no good reason which prevents even just 50 people from voting is a violation of their rights.
there’s no need for it. it suppresses likely democratic voters while republicans are the ones who always push for this voter ID garbage. and you, apparently.
it’s blatant intentional voter suppression.
It isn’t voter suppression. Again, look at a blue state that tied voter registration to state ID:
opb.org/…/oregon-voter-turnout-dropped-75-percent…
“Since 2012, the last election before the new system, the percentage of eligible Oregonians registered to vote has increased from 75% to 94%.”
Registrations are up.
Look at the election turnout in Oregon compared to national turnout since enabling motor voting in 2016:
2016 - 80.33% vs. 59.2%
2018 - 67.8% vs. 53.4%
2020 - 78.5% vs. 65.3%
2022 - 66.9% vs. 46.8%
2024 - 75% vs. 63.4%
Turnout is up. Nobody is being disenfrachised here, more people are registered, more people are participating. All of that TERRIFIES Republicans.
Sources:
sos.oregon.gov/…/Voter_Turnout_History_General_El…
…ucsb.edu/…/voter-turnout-in-presidential-electio…
You do not need ID to buy alcohol / tobacco, at least in California and Texas.
The rule is that you can’t sell to a minor. Different forms of ID would work, but even then, if you know they’re old enough you don’t need to ask.
Maybe other things on the list are more complex too / have gray area.
Must not be the “We ID under 40” states.
Here, you can’t turn around without ID.
It happens more than you think. When I was in my early 20’s I was a traveling hippy and my driver’s license expired. I didn’t have the 25$ to get a new license in the state I moved to, I literally had zero dollars lol.
I found a local nonprofit justice center that paid the 20$ I needed.
Without that ID I couldn’t get a job or pay any bills or do much of anything. Transitioning from being a poor vegan hobbler (basically a homeless person, but I was in my early 20’s) to a person with an apartment and job and everything else needed for that was one of the most difficult and tedious things I’ve ever done.
For folks with less mental faculties, poor families just getting by, etc I can absolutely see how fulfilling these proposed restrictions on voting would be difficult to impossible.