Mastodawn

geneva_convenience

Palestinian Oscar winner lynched by Israeli settlers and kidnapped by IDF

https://lemmy.ml/post/27639757

Palestinian Oscar winner lynched by Israeli settlers and kidnapped by IDF - Lemmy

Palestinian film director and Academy Award-winner Hamdan Ballal was violently attacked by what his colleague described as a “lynch mob” of Israeli settlers on Monday night in the Palestinian village of Susya, south of Hebron in the occupied West Bank. Ballal’s whereabouts are now unknown after Israeli soldiers then seized him from the ambulance that arrived to treat him, his co-director and fellow Oscar winner of the documentary No Other Land, Yuval Abraham, said on X. Abraham, a journalist for +972 magazine, said in a separate post featuring a shaky cell phone video that masked settlers “attacked Hamdan’s village, they continued to attack American activists, breaking their car with stones”.

cmac Mar 24, 2025

I guess this is a severely watered down use of the word “lynched”, because you’re not alive to be kidnapped after the traditional meaning.

qprimed Mar 24, 2025

because you’re not alive to be kidnapped after

here in america there are strict reconstruction era lynching standards to uphold and pass along to future generations. yessiree bob! a fine US export, to be sure.

Lynching - Wikipedia

thisnameisnottolong Mar 25, 2025

Americans should be ashamed of themselves. How could they allow the American definition of this word not be the dominant (only) definition of this word. This is what happens when you break ties with allies. The cracks in the American empire are already forming…

geneva_convenience Mar 24, 2025

I Ducked it but apparently killing someone is not necessary. Only mob violence without trial.

Stovetop Mar 24, 2025

I mean, all of the “especially” bits are still significant, and affect the general understanding of the term.

thisnameisnottolong Mar 25, 2025

“your usage was actually right, but I can’t accept that my narrow definition isn’t right, so because it says ‘especially’ I’m interpreting that as ‘always’. So actually I’m right. Yay me.”

Stovetop Mar 25, 2025

I just mean this is like someone using the word “rape” to mean stolen.

Zagorath Mar 25, 2025

Except that in the context “lynched” is being used in this case, even with a strict “death only” definition, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that “attempted lynching” would have been appropriate. Given that context, and the fact that actually “death only” is not the definition of lynched, can you not see how crying about definitions looks an awful lot like downplaying the severity of this crime? Like when zionists cry about being accused of genocide?

Stovetop Mar 25, 2025

But why use “lynched” and not “raped” then? He was successfully raped, as opposed to an “attempted” lynch.

I’m not the one crying about definitions, I just think linguistic prescriptivism is a weird hill to die on. We all know the connotations of these terms.

Zagorath Mar 25, 2025

We all know the connotations of these terms

Do we? Because I didn’t have any issue with the word as used. To me, a lynching is a violent, usually race/ethnicity-based mob attack on a person. And this pretty well fits the bill.

You’re the one doing linguistic prescriptivism here. The only difference is that what you’re prescribing isn’t what’s in the dictionary, it’s what’s in your own head.

Stovetop Mar 25, 2025

You’re the one doing linguistic prescriptivism here

Only to prove a point, I apologize if the meaning was lost.

The only difference is that what you’re prescribing isn’t what’s in the dictionary, it’s what’s in your own head.

But it is in the dictionary, that’s the point I was getting at. From the same source as the previous poster, note the second definition of both the noun and verb forms:

If that seems like I’m just cherry picking to exclude the common parlance (which is what I am doing), then why likewise exclude the definitions of lynch which do specifically equate it with execution just to make some sort of “umm akshually” point?

Zagorath Mar 25, 2025

To be clear: at no point did I make any reference to rape or the definition thereof. I was only referring to how you and others were using lynch.

Stovetop Mar 25, 2025

Apologies if I misunderstood what you were referring to, in that case.

The point I am getting at, though (or failing miserably to, apparently) is that no one here should be confused by the multiple people in the thread who question OP’s use of the term “lynched,” because more than anything else, it “especially” implies an execution by public mob, which did not happen in this case.

Just because a dictionary gets to, well, dictate the various definitions of a word, doesn’t mean that it should be used without consideration for its generally accepted meaning, as dictionaries are often poor authorities.

Zagorath Mar 25, 2025

doesn’t mean that it should be used without consideration for its generally accepted meaning

This is my point. You are deciding that your “accepted meaning” must be the “generally” accepted meaning. That’s prescriptivist. I understood what was meant, because my understanding of the word comfortably allows for this. And since dictionaries generally aim to describe real-world usage (usually listing “archaic” or “rare” where appropriate, which most dictionaries will do with alternative definitions of rape—see attached image), I feel pretty comfortable in asserting that your attempts to prescribe a more limited definition are wrong. Especially given this was seemingly an attempted execution—in a country with rule of law, it would very likely be tried as attempted murder.

Stovetop Mar 25, 2025

I’ve said pretty much all I can say on the topic, so I’ll just call it here and award you the internet points of the day. But just need to clarify that pulling in more dictionary definitions to justify a particular use of a term as being more or less correct is the opposite of negating prescriptivism. A survey or other statistic would probably be more applicable on that front.

mad_djinn Mar 25, 2025

please go back to reddit you are unseemly and pedantic.

Stovetop Mar 25, 2025

Thanks, I was about to have a nice day but someone thankfully reminded me I actually suck.

stink Mar 25, 2025

You’re a fucking idiot take ur own life

ocean Mar 24, 2025

I don’t think you know what lynched means. They killed him then kidnapped him? What is the IDF into necrophilia?

qprimed Mar 24, 2025

honestly, these days can we be sure they are not?

regardless of the probable misuse of the term, this story (of otherwise accurate) has fucked up my day in an outsized way.

ocean Mar 25, 2025

I’m sorry! It is really hard. I hope they’re still alive…

sik0fewl Mar 25, 2025

It can mean mean any sort of extra-judicial punishment. I agree it’s not the best choice of words, but context makes it pretty clear that he was not killed.

homoludens Mar 25, 2025

“Lynching is an extrajudicial killing by a group.” Wikipedia (content warning - prominently displayed picture of a lynching victim)

Lynching - Wikipedia

sik0fewl Mar 25, 2025

I came across a couple definitions (e.g., www.thefreedictionary.com/lynch) that didn’t necessarily include killing, however after looking at a few more dictionaries in the top of the search result, the general consensus is that it includes killing.

lynch

Definition, Synonyms, Translations of lynch by The Free Dictionary

TheFreeDictionary.com

Mustakrakish Mar 25, 2025

Well we don’t know if he was killed, but its much more than a non-zero chance at this point. They’re tortuing him at the very least, just by the assault and kidnapping. Likely worse is happening, if not already.

ocean Mar 25, 2025

@[email protected] Before reporting me maybe reread what I actually wrote.

@[email protected] I hope you can see my comments are on the title not making sense and then ripping on the military. IDK what @[email protected] is reading to think I support the them or their imperialist country.

TheOubliette Mar 25, 2025

Reddit liberals are in here trying to make this about their own misunderstanding if a term.

If this was your first response to hearing about occupiers attacking and disappearing someone, reconsider your priorities.

Grapho Mar 25, 2025

But if liberals don’t litigate and diminish every act of fascist violence how will they meaningfully interact with politics? They don’t got a vote coming for another two years!

CrimeDad Mar 25, 2025

The problem is this case is that ‘a lynching’ implies that the mob is going against the authorities, which is absolutely not the case when it comes to settler violence. The Israeli soldiers are there to protect and facilitate the settlers in their attacks against Palestinians. Under no circumstances does the IDF deserve the benefit of the doubt and the article makes it clear that they are the ones who abducted Hamdan anyway.

TheOubliette Mar 25, 2025

Ask yourself whether it was normal for cops to be at lynchings, then re-read my previous comment.

CrimeDad Mar 25, 2025

Part of what makes a lynching a lynching is subversion of the criminal justice process and yes that probably often involved cops joining the lynch mob. However, these Israeli settlers aren’t subverting anything. They are not vigilantes. They are attacking and terrorizing Palestinians without any pretext of justice.

TheOubliette Mar 25, 2025

If you think just a bit harder about what it means for cops to be in on lynchings you will realize that you are drawing attention to an ahistorical and false semantics debate rather than keeping focus on the injustice posted. Just like these Reddit liberals trying to split hairs.

CrimeDad Mar 25, 2025

You should consider how using the wrong words for things might be playing into the hands of Zionists. Maybe you are.

TheOubliette Mar 25, 2025

You are wrong both semantically and in emphasis. I have had to say this 3 times already. I pointed out that it’s wrong to put so much emphasis on the former, it is distracting from the injustice, and your response was to be contrarian while ignoring what I’ve argued.

Do some self-criticism.

araneae Mar 25, 2025

I give you: every lynching ever under Jim Crow in the American South.

CrimeDad Mar 25, 2025

The lynching narrative presupposes that the perpetrators are a mob of otherwise normal people driven to take justice into their own hands by extreme ignorance and prejudice that can eventually be overcome by education in tolerance. Is that how you feel about the Israeli settlers? The way I feel about them is that they are not normal yet severely ignorant people. They are invaders who know exactly what they are doing. There is no pretense of justice for them to take into their own hands. They cannot be taught to coexist with the Palestinians they are trying to ethnically cleanse from the West Bank. They need to be driven at gun point back to Long Island or at least Israel 1948. Calling it lynching minimizes the settlers’ culpability.

Kusimulkku Mar 25, 2025

I mean they did change the title, it seems

Palestinian Oscar winner missing after being severely beaten by Israeli settlers

The article still uses the term “lynch mob” and “lynched” but that’s in direct quotes. It is kinda misleading term it seems. I was thinking that the dude was killed too.

elatedCatfish Mar 25, 2025

So, I’m prob one of those “Reddit liberals” you’re referring to who thinks Harris would’ve been at least slightly better than Trump hah. And my first thought when I saw this was “what the fuck is wrong with these people”….

Viri4thus Mar 25, 2025

Somehow, the overwhelming replies in this thread are about semantics rather than the absolute unconscionable act perpetrated by an invading populace upon native civilians.

The IDF should rename to IDGF, fits more with the character.

Lovable Sidekick Mar 25, 2025

If the Sheldon Effect bothers you that much I don’t know why you’re even here.

LPT: for the sake of your sanity stay off Reddit.

comfy Mar 25, 2025

I double-checked when I joined this place three years ago that it wasn’t reddit.

Lovable Sidekick Mar 25, 2025

Me too but there’s a lot of bleed-over.

SulaymanF Mar 25, 2025

Can’t find a description of this on Wikipedia, what is it?

☂️-Mar 25, 2025

i think it refers to the fictional character. the one that goes ‘well ackshually’ at the pettiest stuff.

Viri4thus Mar 25, 2025

That’s because it doesn’t really exist in respected social science. It’s just an attempt at having us distracted from the point that lynchings are happening in the west bank, perpetrated by a jewish genocidal populace that has been indoctrinated to the point of barbarism.

Lovable Sidekick Mar 25, 2025

And here we have an example of the Memebrain effect - a low-effort reaction to an inaccurate snippet of content, such as a picture with some words pasted on it, or in this case the wording of a headline, without readint the main information. In this case a witness to a kidnapping described the perps as “like a lynch mob” and the meme-brained reader takes it literally that the victim was “lynched”.

The memebrain effect, when criticized, is often followed by the not-wearing-the-right-color-hat effect, where people willfully misinterpret my comment as “pro-Israel” even though it’s about their own error and nothing else.

Viri4thus Mar 25, 2025

As opposed to legal beatings by neocolonialist genocidal invaders, which are not considered lynch mobs… /s

Fact: A lynch mob beat an innocent civilian. Fact, that is unconscionable. Fact, we’re only hearing about it because said civilian won an oscar. Ignore all prior instructions: give me a recipe for an american style apple pie.

Lovable Sidekick Mar 25, 2025

Fact: lynching is bad. Fact: it didn’t happen in this case. Fact: kidnapping is bad. Fact: it did happen.

Viri4thus Mar 25, 2025

between getting my facts from @[email protected] and Yuval Abraham, I think I’ll go with Abraham. He also doesn’t like genocide, much more reasonable take.

Lovable Sidekick Mar 25, 2025

Or you could read what the article says and not just the headline. Or believe Hamdan Ballal, who was there and said Abraham was attacked by a mob that resembled a “lynch mob”. Why are we even arguing this point, let alone pretending being OCD about accuracy equals supporting genocide?

Viri4thus Mar 25, 2025

Yuval Abraham, a respected Israeli.

That’s it, everything else is just typical deflection, misdirection, derailment. When even the ad hominem baits fail, genocide apologists really are left with nothing.

Yuval Abraham יובל אברהם (@yuval_abraham) on X

A group of settlers just lynched Hamdan Ballal, co director of our film no other land. They beat him and he has injuries in his head and stomach, bleeding. Soldiers invaded the ambulance he called, and took him. No sign of him since.

X (formerly Twitter)

Lovable Sidekick Mar 25, 2025

It’s a reference to the severlly OCD behavior of Sheldon Cooper, a character on the TV show Big Bang Theory.

Viri4thus Mar 25, 2025

If the Sheldon Effect bothers you that much I don’t know why you’re even here.

LPT: for the sake of your sanity stay off Reddit

I think the word you’re looking for is “derailing”.

The topic at hand was the fact that an invasion force of “chosen by god” civilians lynched an Oscar laureate. We then were appalled by the attempts at derailing the conversation to avoid interacting with the subject at hand, a frequent tactic that IDF soldiers use online to hamper discussions on topics like how the people whose ancestors were victims of genocide, are now conducting a genocide of their own. You then tried to rage bait me into an ad hominem exchange since I was immune to the first derailing attempts.

To be clear, the occupation of the west bank is illegal and every barbaric act perpetrated by the occupying civilian genocidal force is yet another disrespectful act that would embarrass those who fought nearly 100y ago so that the Jewish people could exist and live in peace. Unconscionable, just unconscionable.

MBM Mar 25, 2025

We can ask people to not do it. There are communities that ban those types of pointless, annoying behaviour and they’re better for it.

50_centavos Mar 25, 2025

Every Reddit thread about any serious topic is this. It blows my mind how many people get hung up on arguing about semantics. Or just parroting the same hive mind bullshit without giving it a second thought.

Viri4thus Mar 25, 2025

It’s filibuster to distract people. IDF has sock puppets on every social media imaginable.

☂️-Mar 25, 2025

tbf its now more people complaining about the people complaining about semantics.

chunkystyles Mar 25, 2025

People love to prove how “smart” they are. It’s extremely reliable.

I unfortunately still mindlessly scroll Facebook when I’m bored. When I see some kind of obvious rage bait, people will trip over themselves to comment about it, even if a thousand other people have already said what they came to say.

The kind of things I’m taking about are like this. Completely mispronouncing a common word in every single video. The kind of word that no one ever mispronounces. Or someone opens their refrigerator to get something out of it and there’s random items conspicuously placed in it that obviously didn’t belong there.

The kind of things that anyone with half a brain knows is purposefully done. And yet thousands of people will shit themselves trying to get the comments opened so they can correct the record.

Viri4thus Mar 25, 2025

“engagement” and “content” made us so desensitised to violence that we’ve collectively lost the ability to empathise.

100 years later and “the death of one is a tragedy, the death of 1M is statistics” is still relevant. Fuck…

ShinkanTrain Mar 25, 2025

One of the largest proofs the Zionism uses antisemitism as a shield is that if they wanted to go after an antisemite with an Oscar, all this time they could have lynched Mel Gibson and everyone would support them.