Matt BlazeMar 24

Signal provides:

- Excellent protection against third party interception of communications (wiretapping).

- Limited protection against compromised (hacked) or lost devices

- No protection against certain common usage mistakes (accidentally including a reporter in your large group war planning chat).

Show threadAI6YR Ben
@mattblaze LOL this last one seems the most relevant https://xkcd.com/538/
Security

xkcd
Mar 24 at 7:32pmWeb
Show threadBerndMar 24
@ai6yr @mattblaze otherwise known as "rubberhose cryptanalysis":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption#rubber
Deniable encryption - Wikipedia

Show threadSaulMar 24
@hopfgeist @ai6yr @mattblaze Never has the term ‘clusterfuck’ been more appropriate.
Show threadmccMar 24
@ai6yr @mattblaze To be clear, it's slightly more likely that rather than a literal wrench a government entity will simply issue a subpeona for your (or your chat counterparty's) chat logs and threaten jail if you don't comply.
Show threadLisPiMar 24
@mcc @mattblaze @ai6yr It helps when one would get a lot more than just jail if one doesn't comply.

A subpoena would also only apply in cases where one doesn't have a Right to Silence. (The UK is one such nightmare state.)
Show threadmccMar 24

@lispi314 @mattblaze @ai6yr You may have a right to silence, but if the state can credibly charge you with a separate crime, they can induce you to waive that right in exchange for "voluntary" cooperation.

It is the case that the United States appears to be transitioning from government threats backed by legal force to government threats backed by wrenches. I am trying not to say anything alarmist in Mr. Blaze's mentions tho.

Show threadAI6YR BenMar 24
@mcc @lispi314 @mattblaze Yes, unfortunately, the wrenches seem to have come out of their toolboxes (IMHO).
Show threadLisPiMar 24
@mcc @ai6yr @mattblaze I now realized I failed in my original phrasing. Probably rewrote that sentence too many times.

> It helps when one would get a lot more than just jail if one doesn't comply.

If one *does comply* is what I meant.

Of course at some point one has to consider that not getting caught alive might be the modus operandi to go by.
Show threadAndreas KMar 24

@mcc
Sadly we long reached the point where the prosecution process in many cases can be quite punishing already for normal folks, so yes, in many cases intimation it's nowadays called solid police work. Look here, we wouldn't be questioning you if you were innocent. Want us to lock up your whole family in investigative custody? How many of them will lose their jobs and their income?

So tell us how you did, all details please.

@lispi314 @mattblaze @ai6yr

Show threadLisPiMar 25
@yacc143 @ai6yr @mattblaze @mcc In such a situation suicide, possibly by cop, is potentially the only good option.

There is absolutely no reason to trust that they will not harm the family or frame them for other reasons, for the fun of it, anyway.

Collaboration gives nothing. Angering them /might/ increase the chances of such retaliation, but in all likelihood it was going to happen anyway.
Show threadAndreas KMar 25

@lispi314
Ah, you are talking about bad places where people disappear, ...

My comment was more about nice rule of law democracies where law enforcement does also take sometimes a heavy hand approach. Suicide my not be necessary, in that case, but an understanding of the rules of the game would help.
@mattblaze @ai6yr @mcc

Show threadJeremy ListMar 26
@lispi314 @mattblaze @ai6yr @mcc I've heard of a case where someone in the UK got jailed because cops convinced themselves and a judge that a file full of astronomical data was encrypted.
Show threadLisPiMar 26
@jeremy_list @mcc @ai6yr @mattblaze Yup, without a right to silence they can literally just pick random cat pictures on one's computer, claim they're encrypted, and then jail one for failing to decrypt them (while knowing full well the entire time that they never were encrypted).
Show threadGeoff CoffeyMar 24
@mcc @ai6yr @mattblaze I believe it was Thomas Hobbes who said "without the $5 wrench there is no justice."
Show threadKim ScheinbergMar 25

@mcc @ai6yr @mattblaze
If I learned anything from Eric Adams it's that I can change my phone's password, 'forget' what I've changed it to, and wait for half a dozen people to resign before my case gets indefinitely adjourned.

🎶 The one thing we need is a left-handed monkey wrench 🎶