yesmanYou keep your Western food science. I've got an immune system. Thanks.
erotadorif you want cold milk just add ice
Yes, officer, this one right here.
Adding ice is ridiculous. Add Pepsi
hungryphrogPlease be joking, please be joking…
So it doesn’t turn into yogurt?
My fridge isn’t full of raw milk or anything, but I think this goose is a better fit for the oven than guard duty.
It’s a bit like making alcohol—it’s made through fermentation, but you want it to be very controlled.
Normally you’d want to sterilize the starting mix first to kill any undesired molds and bacteria, add the fermenting agent that you want (lactic acid producing bacteria in this case) and age it in a sealed container until ready.
If it starts with any contaminants or if any are introduced during fermentation, it’d spoil the batch and make you very sick if ingested.
PotatoesFallregular milk also needs to be refrigerated tho
If your objective is to get sick then it needs to kept room in temperature.
So is having it raw in the first place.
HappySkullsplitterDoesn’t raw milk have an even shorter shelf life?
bleistift2Depends on how you look at it. Raw milk spoils at the same pace as pasteurized milk. Only for raw milk the counter starts ticking once the milk leaves the cow, whereas pasteurized milk remains sterile until you open the package.
Pasteurised doesn’t equal sterilised. Not sure ofcourse where you live since apparently that matters for this term since some places used pasteurised for what is double pasteurization and thermized for single pasteurization.
I know the pasteurised milk I buy will spoil in a matter of days, even if unopened. The only milk that will stay good unopened for months us UHT.
Thanks for the heads-up. I just checked the German Wikipedia article. Apparently there are several ‘levels’ of pasteurization ranging from 70°C through 150°C. Since I’ve only encountered the kill-all-that-has-ever-lived kind (UHT), I assumed that’s what everyone does.
Match!!in a way, no, because raw milk is already unsafe to drink by the time it’s packaged
+1 for this: I have very personal experience with an E.Coli outbreak in a small town in southern Utah in 2017. Although the infections did not come from raw milk directly, the infections were traced to the area where the milk was packaged - and albeit anecdotally, there were several related deaths over the years that I was aware of, that were never reported due to the…uh…unique religious background of the place.
so yeah, I mean…don’t let your children play in manure but also…don’t drink milk that you sanitize less than you sanitize your hands.
Actually the science on this shows that kids who grow up close to manure have lower incidence of allergies and other autoimmune problems.
before i knee-jerk react to this, i need to know:
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source? give me a link at minimum, preferably a scientific journal since you’re citing “the science” - much else isn’t gonna make the cut here.
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if this is the case, why did i and my peers have crippling allergies for the entirety of my childhood? we spent tons of time around manure, thousands of hours literally walking in it. we still couldn’t breathe outdoors without getting allergy symptoms.
I can’t get deep into the search right now, but you can check the big overviews. It’s called the ‘Hygiene Hypothesis’ and it’s been a topic for quite a while. Some interesting articles that will get you in the general area are about some specific allergens, microbiome influence on allergens, and this one I can’t find a link for right now, but look up the research on Finnish children who became politically separated from their close relatives by a political border (when the USSR and the ‘western world’ became contentious and the flow of people became stymied). That one is particularly interesting because you have three populations: the USSR folks at the border (a rural area), the Finnish folks at the border (a rural area), and the Finnish folks away from the border in the urban areas. If I remember correctly, the Finnish word for autoimmune disorders has literal translation of ‘clean house disease’ or something similar.
What makes the border research interesting is you have two ‘western medicine’ groups split by the rural/urban divide and a rural ‘other’ category to compare to. I can’t remember if they had issues and couldn’t include the USSR urban group, or if it was too great of a divide genetically/diversity-wise to include to accurately compare without adding a third condition.
Yeah. Calling bullshit on this.
I’m the 2nd oldest of 7 kids. That house was never clean. We had all kinds of pets. I would play in the woods, make mud pies, catch weird bugs, eat wild berries and onion grass. I pretty much had the “go outside and play in the dirt to build character” childhood. I’ve got a couple of food allergies and pet dander allergies. My oldest sibling has an auto-immune issue, the ones just after me are pretty healthy, just some minor lactose intolerance, and the two youngest (from my step dad) have a bunch of weird allergies, like potatoes and milk.
It’s a genetic roll of the dice. The reason why allergies seem more common is because more kids are able to survive anaphylaxis at a young age thanks to modern medicine and quick emergency response times… Like I went through when I spontaneosly developed a severe fish allergy at 4 years old.
what about the infant and early childhood death rates
I think there is confusion between raw milk, pasteurized milk and UHT milk. Only UHT milk doesn’t need to be refrigerated but it tastes horrible.
robolemmyI’m that weird guy who prefers the cooked taste of UHT pasteurized milk.
Another weird UHT enjoyer here. If it weren’t so expensive where I’m at then I’d be having it more often
Scroll ResponsiblyI hope it at least pleases you to know that in places where UHT milk is the norm, pasteurised milk is more expensive and sometimes simply not available. (I somewhat prefer that flavour)
If I want that cooked flavor I open a can of evaporated (not condensed which has a lot of added sugar) milk. It’s yummy in coffee and any cooking/baking use.
Only UHT milk doesn’t need to be refrigerated…
While it’s still sealed. Once opened, it needs to be refrigerated.
There is decent UHT milk but it’s by no means the majority of the market.
Tuberculosis has entered the chat.
And Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, Brucella, Salmonella.. It's the Macy's parade equivalent of preventable diseases by UHT and y'all been invited!
On the other hand, unrefrigerated raw milk is a fantastic way of meeting who's who of the bacterial world.
For some people it’s the only culture they’ll ever have.
OwlBut it’s natural! And natural always means it’s good for you, because I’m scared of chemicals despite not knowing what a chemical is because I can’t pronounce their names!
Exactly, Salmonella can be on its own a great way to boost your defenses*.
*If you survive it.
Salmonella?!? But I’m not having fish!
Even though pasteurizing doesn’t add any chemicals to the milk either…
FizzI don’t get it. Isnt all milk to be refrigerated?
A lot of continental Europeans drink UHT which only needs refrigerating once opened.
UHT is the opposite of raw milk.
Pasteurized orange juice?
I meant ULTRA heat-treated.
Beyond pasteurized.
Exactly
Or well-pasturised. UHT is what I call “baking milk,” because UHT adds a rather unpleasant note which results from heating, which is fine in baked goods but not nice to drink.
the post is highlighting the hypocrisy in refrigerating milk while also being against milk pasteurization, since both of those practices have been done for around a hundred years and serve to make milk last longer and be safer to drink.
Just about every dairy product (butter, cheese, whey, buttermilk) was made as a way to keep milk safe for consumption. Rejecting pasteurization, which is just slightly warming up milk is incredibly obtuse and reeks of deliberate ignorance
maybe RFK(wasnt he behind all this nonsense?) is a secret militant vegan who wants to discourage people from drinking animal milk by making it harmful to humans(/s just in case)
The reason for avoiding pasteurization is to maintain nutrients.
It’s got nothing to do with whatever ethic might require a person to purposefully invite infection, as this post seems to presuppose.
No, it’s just ignorance. Plus if it DID destroying nutrients in any meaningful sense, you would still get more nutrients because you wouldn’t be having constants diarrhea due to drinking raw milk.
So what scientific experiments have you conducted to come to this conclusion? Obviously, you can never trust a real scientist, right? So you must have done SOMETHING to come to this conclusion all on your own.
So tell me your methods. I’d love to see your groundbreaking findings, since you’re the smartest person in the world and no one will ever be able to trump your science.
Isn’t pasteurization just heating it up to kill the bacteria? I don’t remember all the details but it’s like not eating raw chicken or something.
Hiro8811Pasteurization aka boiling
Regular refrigerated shelf milk is not brought to the boiling temperature. It is brought to 71.5 C / 160.7 F for 15 seconds. The boiling temperature of milk is around 95 C.
ultra high temperature pasteurized milk is brought way above the boiling point (135 C) for 2 seconds, but you won’t find that in the refrigerated section. It will be sitting in a carton in an unrefrigerated aisle.
They put ultra pasteurized milk in the same cooler as regular milk in my neck of the woods. Same for egg nog.
Interesting, maybe it’s a perception thing? UHT is supposed to be shelf stable for like 6-9 months, although it might last even longer if refrigerated. I’d imagine I’d your area’s milk is normally refrigerated, then it could be hard to sell UHT milk to someone if it’s not even in the cooler at time of purchase.
Yeah I suspect it’s shaped location, but also if you’re used to milk being cold, it’s the place you’re going to look, and it’s going right in your fridge when you get home.
This feels like a straw man. I don’t remember them making any arguments against using a refrigerator.
I mean fuck them, but fuck them on topic otherwise we are just huffing out own smug cloud and that doesn’t convince anyone.
They don’t make those arguments because they’re stupid and don’t understand what they’re talking about, but if they really had the problem with pasterisation, they would necessarily have to have problems with other methods of preventing bacteria growth, like refrigeration for example. The fact that they don’t is the signifyer on itself.
Ok, so there are two kinds of idiots.
There are only a few 2s, most are 1s. Like 1 “2” for every 100000 “1”.
2s, as you have stated, don’t care. They know. They know their arguments are dumb and a misdirection. They will not engage with this meme, because they know what they are doing and they know it is wrong and they know that engaging with this will just out them and expose their bad takes.
Even if you get rid of all the 2s, 1s will self perpetuate. So you really should target the 1s.
The 1s are not aware of all of this 6d chess going on. So if you show them this meme, they are going to be confused because they have no problem with refrigeration and they are going to be mad because you are implying that they are dumb and you are not addressing their concerns. So they ignore us and don’t learn anything and we look like idiots. This is what the 2s want.
The thing is, pasteurization is an easy win for us. No need to overcomplicate it. Just tell the 1s and 2s the truth. Otherwise we end up looking like we don’t have an argument by making up positions they don’t have. If the 2s pipe up, we have the data and “It’s your life, if you want to risk getting deadly diseases tuberculosis, brucellosis, and E. coli, that is your choice”. If they go farther you can just say they are in a death cult, it’s easily winnable even if you are an ok debater.
Honestly the 1s are looking at this meme and must think it is some other group that is being targeted because they have no problems with refrigeration so this post is like 99% of people who agree with each other patting each other on the back. Fun, but not productive.
There are only a few 2s, most are 1s. Like 1 “2” for every 100000 “1”.
[citation needed], But that doesn’t even matter.
The meme would be confused to the “1” idiots, yes. And that’s a good thing. Confusion is a brain activity, it’s an uncomfortable state of mind, and it demands answers. It might provoke some thoughts or urge to research something to resolve. It might not. In which case it’s a meme on the internet with the power and purpose of every other meme on the internet.
And if the person is too stupid to have the productive confusion, well, maybe not everything on the internet should be targeted exclusively to the lowest information bacteria.