cm0002Mark Cuban is ready to fund a TikTok alternative built on Bluesky's AT Protocol | TechCrunch
seven_phoneKids use tiktok and they don’t want something their dad built, however safe. They are migrating to red note because it’s not safe.
They are throwing a tantrum in the stupidest way possible.
The 200 iq move is to join it and tell them how cool it is. Then they won’t like it.
Eh. I tried this with TikTok. Didn’t work.
Hey don’t dis our corporate overlords and owners. They provide us food and shelter, well, only if you do what they demand…
GodlessCommieBecause we can totally trust the oligarchs to build something safe for us.
Hey don’t dis our corporate overlords and owners. They provide us food and shelter, well, only if you do what they demand…
Lol, this explanation is about as plausible as the “threat” of strangers offering me free drugs (which I must definitely say no to, rofl).
Yes what I was saying was that it is a safe unsafe thing, safe at least to them in any way that matters but still problematic to the people around them which is exactly the thing people want at that age. Seemed a perfectly reasonable thing to say, not sure why it’s downvoted so much.
Bcs kids like to experiment and grow, the dangers involved (as a side effect!!) being to them, not systemic risks to whole countries and the world.
If I did extreme sports as a kid my grandma wouldn’t get radicalised from my money spent on that.
If I support a shitty app from a shitty corp my grandma could get a higher chance of seeing shitty one-sided news of just whatever is profitable to that corp.
Doing anything affects the world around you, so doing something that affects everyone & saying that you like the ‘danger’ doesn’t make sense bcs it’s not primarily towards you.
Thats why the problem ‘if you click this button you get a million monies but a random person is killed’ wasn’t made to debate the “danger” but rather morals of such a decision.
Video will not work for AT whatsoever. Text and images, fine, but I’m pretty sure leveraging edge delivery of video is just not going to work out well for users. I think they’ll need a centralized host for that portion, or some fancy ways to offload bandwidth otherwise to prevent constant hammering of popular videos.
some fancy ways to offload bandwidth otherwise to prevent constant hammering of popular videos
it’s called a CDN
CDN won’t scale to millions of users all uploading videos on a decentralized system. Article is specifically talking about AT Protocol which doesn’t account for video. Making a global CDN distribution of videos from decentralized sources is whole other ball of wax.
XNXBluesky has videos though?
Bluesky has videos linked to a static host by a different site or provider. They are not themselves the host of those videos. Different scenario.
ChozoCould implement torrents, which I believe is how Peertube handles it.
You apparently do not internet. Anything with a wait time is not an app platform people will use.
more than half of visitors leave a page if they’re forced to wait longer than 3 seconds
and it’s not outlandish to suggest that length decreases every year.
109ms response time was the goal circa 2009. Now, with the advent of Kubernetes, response time as are in seconds. Proxies on top of proxies cost request time. Users will abandon.
lumpenproletariatSo why does it for for AP with Loops? What’s the fundamental difference between, isn’t the Fediverse the more decentralised system?
Can you reform this question?
Loops uses ActivityPub and feeds video in a TikTok like manner.
What’s the difference that makes it not achievable for AT but okay for AP?
Because one costs money and another doesn’t. Simple fact.
CDN distribution of content is 2X the cost of static hosted files. This isn’t a pendant saying “I CAN DO THIS” scenario, it’s “can it be monetized”, and in the case of of a video service on AT, absolutely not. Who do you think is paying for the hosting costs of a popular video in this scenario?
Cuban doesn’t know WTF he’s talking about about at all, but if he wants to launch competition and pay for that, there is certainly an expectation that a return will be built. Ads all over the place.
Long story short Activity Pub only pulls the content it needs from remote servers when it needs it and can choose how to handle media (serve the original or cache and proxy). It already is similar-ish to a CDN.
AT-Proto is super complex, but my understanding is that a new server (app in AT-Proto parlance) needs to copy everything beforehand from all others, and needs to constantly replicate everything, wether it will be served or not, making the data transfers intractably massive.
paraphrandI don’t think it has been proven that Loops is viable at scale yet.
Because Activity Pub is not a data salad. A video lives in a specific place.
UlrichPeerTube uses WebTorrent technology. Each server hosts a torrent tracker and each web browser viewing a video also shares it. This allows to share the load between the server itself and the clients as well as the bandwidth used through P2P technology.
Yes, and it’s incredibly slow and wouldn’t scale to millions of users. If one user is high bandwidth, and another low, you’d have uneven distribution of traffic for a newly connecting user, meaning the entirety of whatever you’re about to watch won’t be completed in time for a good user interaction flow. The issue isn’t whether it’s technically possible or not, but if it’s functional enough for similar traffic as TikTok.
The other issue with torrenting is that a lot of users may incur data charges if the service were to be constantly seeding other users on limited data plans or with data or speed caps in general. It’s just not the right tool for the job.
It will scale just fine, so long as the ratio of instances:users is similar.
The current ratio of consumers:creators on youtube is 41:1, by my research. A single server of sufficient power could easily serve thousands of users.
That’s not how this would have to work though. Even with dedicated seeding instances, the instantiation of a session for a torrent is LONG. Like 5s+ long. A request and response from a CDN is in the milliseconds. Users wouldn’t use a system that takes 5s just for the initial request for a single video, plus the additional time to sort for segments and recombining before it play. Even in a fast-ish scenario, that’s like 10s alone.
Imagine waiting 10s for a stupid internet video to even start playing to watch some kid dance with a rubber chicken in their pants.
the instantiation of a session for a torrent is LONG. Like 5s+ long
That’s weird because it works instantly for me.
wtf ever happened to vine?
Twitter bought it
The founders died in 2023 ?
What the hell is going on with his pinky finger?
All bad guys do weird stuff with their pinky when talking about money
There’s a fediverse alternative made by same people who have made pixelfed called Loops Link
woelkchenLoops is even less federated that Blue Sky, meaning not at all. (It’s on the roadmap, though.)
Given the track record of blue sky and pixelfed, I would out my money on pixelfed.
katTho Cuban is asking specifically for ATProto. Guess loops could pivot lol
PikaLoops has some work if it ever wants to really blow up. I crashed constantly while using it the other day, and it’s feature set needs work. It has potential though.
Have you used loops? I tried to sign up and its been ~6 hours without a verification email. Its great they have a testflight app on iOS but I’ve been looking for an android apk with no luck. I really want a federated tik tok to blow up but I’m finding it hard to even get set up.
It’ll probably be another day or two before you get the email. It’ll have a link to an APK to download.
Good to know, thanks!
I used it and it’s very disappointing, the content feeilike that old website that showed you YouTube videos with 0 views.
Yeah, it’s an impressive tech showcase for such a small Dev team… But it’s pretty lackluster as a tiktok replacement.
That verify email will come, but don’t expect a mountain of quality content once it does
its been 2 days, they should at least let content creators of any kind have priority to get some stuff on the platform, I was gonna say link your tiktok to the signup if its manual verification but thats gone lmao
one thing red note nails is easily letting you use the background music of another video for your video, that bare minimum needs to be in loops
Isn’t loops just the pixelfed instance run by the developer?
why are they so hellbound on avoiding the fediverse
No money in fediverse
There is, just not a lot and not for a giant central company that controls it.
You can have a private instance, you can have premium accounts on instances, companies can have their own instance.
FizzA paid instance with high quality UI/ux and stability would actually be good. They can display ads to their hearts content. It just requires them to take the risk and develop it. There is already a solid base to start.
I can tell you right now, that I have no intention of watching ads. That’s the reason I came here to begin with
Thats fine no one is saying you should watch ads. The discussion is that VC people need to build a brand new app on the AT protocol because there is no money in the fediverse. But everything they want to build on AT can be done on Activity pub. As long as they arent federating the ads then no one outside their instance should care.
There still no money in federative your content and not getting paid for it
Not the point. Not what I was saying at all.
The point is AP is a platform for anyone to build their app on. If someone wants to build an app they can build it with their own UI/algo/whatever feature and monetization model they want. They don’t need to go to AT for that. As long as their ads(or however they choose to monetize) isnt federating to other instances then no other fediverse users would care.
Companies can start their own instance or make accounts on others. Instance owners can charge companies to allow them on their instance.
There’s plenty of companies that people enjoy interacting with. We have an entire instance dedicated to Star Trek.
There is
Compared to what corporate has it’s basically no money…
Yeah it’s kinda sad, that open source gets so little love in terms of money.
I would hope that the EU may help here, and in very small steps, that is true, but there could be so much more money (which would still be very little to the EU) that would have a significant effect there.