isuggestkillyourlocalrapistcultural relativism and its consequences have been a disaster for the left
also lunya now@aris tbf only tankies and weird people use cultural relativism to defend the actions of autocracies, so i'd argue that the continued existence of tankies has been a disaster for the left because they're the reason why we can't have nice things
ellie (slut arc) 🖤 
@aris what is cultural relativism?
@roadblock161_ the idea that there are no universally good or bad things only different cultures. for example you may find mysogyny abhorrent but if a large amount of people in a certain area does mysogyny and has been doing so since very long ago then it's their culture and fine while you, are a very bad person for judging their cultural practice with your filthy western values
Andrea, Automancer, Sapphimancer ⚧️♾️@aris @roadblock161_ Having recently had this be an element of my Anthropology class, it seems to occupy a very peculiar middle ground, almost a paradox.
On the one hand, we can objectively look at some "non-western" cultural values and deem them potentially harmful due to misogyny or homophobia, on an objective observation. On the other, cultural relativism argues "hey it's not our place to get involved", as a counter to colonial assimilation and erasure of other cultures.
There was a third term, I forgot what it was, that attempts to ascertain if such cultural norms are actively leading to the demise of that cultural group...maladaptive?
So like. I both agree and don't...I think it's a "time and place" thing where most people fail to care about any nuance in whether or not it's more beneficial, harmful, or even impactful at all in either direction to attempt influence. It's definitely a difficult case though.
@Andrea @roadblock161_ i hold the opinion that cultures are not sacred. it's just how people do things as a habit. and if it harms anyone involved then it needs to change or die.
i also hold the opinion that there's no natural divide between peoples. human culture exists as a geographical and temporal continuum. we develop new ways to do things and learn from other people we're in contact with all the time. our cultural practices naturally differ from village to village and from household to household. when you try to identify a distinct culture and protect it, what you're really doing is manufacturing an ideal and enforcing it upon an arbitrary collection of people. or in another word, nationalism.
western leftists are quick to point this out when they hear "protect white culture" but are equally quick to get hung up when someone whom they don't consider white says literally the same thing and that's why i'm so angry at cultural relativism. it's nationalist thinking creeping into leftist space. it's a betrayal of leftist principles - solidarity beyond borders and ethnicity, betterment of human welfare as a whole.
i've only ever seen cultural relativism applied in two ways in the wild: a go-to rhetoric for reactionaries to shut down international backlash, and simultaneously a convenient excuse for first world activists to stop caring.
and i hope you've understood by now what i propose isn't moulding every culture into the western model. when i say queerphobia is bad it's bcs queerphobia hurts queer people, not bcs it's against western values (in fact, can queer liberation even be considered a western value when queerphobia is still rampant in the so called west?)
i propose that leftists start thinking of humanity as a whole and extending help to those left behind again
i also hold the opinion that there's no natural divide between peoples. human culture exists as a geographical and temporal continuum. we develop new ways to do things and learn from other people we're in contact with all the time. our cultural practices naturally differ from village to village and from household to household. when you try to identify a distinct culture and protect it, what you're really doing is manufacturing an ideal and enforcing it upon an arbitrary collection of people. or in another word, nationalism.
western leftists are quick to point this out when they hear "protect white culture" but are equally quick to get hung up when someone whom they don't consider white says literally the same thing and that's why i'm so angry at cultural relativism. it's nationalist thinking creeping into leftist space. it's a betrayal of leftist principles - solidarity beyond borders and ethnicity, betterment of human welfare as a whole.
i've only ever seen cultural relativism applied in two ways in the wild: a go-to rhetoric for reactionaries to shut down international backlash, and simultaneously a convenient excuse for first world activists to stop caring.
and i hope you've understood by now what i propose isn't moulding every culture into the western model. when i say queerphobia is bad it's bcs queerphobia hurts queer people, not bcs it's against western values (in fact, can queer liberation even be considered a western value when queerphobia is still rampant in the so called west?)
i propose that leftists start thinking of humanity as a whole and extending help to those left behind again
@aris @roadblock161_ Too inebriated to comment in depth but I like what I'm seeing, will read an think more deeply in the morn. Please don't take this as dismissive, I genuinely appreciate when someone else is willing to take the time to think critically from principles rather than applying a formula like a lot of shallow "leftist" stuff that reinforces what we claim to critique where inconvenient!