CheesenessAug 13, 2024

Here we go again
#patreon

Edit: Context is that some years back, Patreon tried to roll similar changes through, which the community successfully pushed back against. My voice is small, but as before, I'll do what I can. https://mastodon.social/@Cheeseness/99141152120173962

Show threadCheesenessAug 14, 2024

I've written up a post summarising the situation as I understand it and inviting thoughts and comments from my supporters, community, and people interested in my work.

My loyalty isn't to #Patreon, it's to the people who want to support me.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/110058668

Show threadCheesenessAug 19, 2024
Still going
#Patreon
Show threadCheesenessAug 24, 2024
I have empathy for their support staff, who I imagine don't have the authority to communicate transparently about why these things are happening, but at least it gives me more opportunity to reiterate that the roadmap to the proposed changes is vague/wishy washy, and don't address the needs of creators using the billing models they intend to retire.
#patreon
Show threadCheesenessSep 7, 2024
Still going slow, but the tone seems to have shifted to acknowledging that many creators are unsatisfied with the proposed changes. I also managed to get a response that more directly addressed my list of concerns, which was very nice.
#patreon
Show threadCheesenessNov 9, 2024
I got them to admit that they had no plans or contingencies to fall back on if they don't implement the unknown stuff they said they want to implement before November 2025, so I said that wasn't good enough and that their stance made me feel unsupported. I was given a new contact, who said they were eager to hear what the platform could do to make me feel supported, so I told them
Show threadCheeseness

Still going! Apparently, my requests for accountability in the wake of eroded trust have been heard "loud and clear." I've expressed that being heard isn't enough if it's not accompanied by tangible outcomes.

Since I am now being forced to consider platforms for traditional subscription billing, I said that I'd like to offer Patreon the chance to pitch their new services to me by explaining how they stand out from competitors. So far, they've only highlighted stuff other platformst do, so...

Jan 14, 2025 at 3:13amWeb
Show threadCheesenessJun 24, 2025

Even though they can't use Apple's policies as justification anymore, Patreon are still very attached to wording that suggests they're going to retire their foundational billing models.

Also, apparently, Patreon are at least partly responsible for Apple being found in contempt of court rather than that being on Apple's shoulders. I don;t think that's how that works.

Show threadCheesenessJan 28
Here we go again (Patreon are, once again, using Apple's iOS app requirements as justification for platform-wide changes).
Show threadCheesenessJan 30
In response to #Patreon reviving plans to force all creators onto a unified subscription billing model and dismissively refusing to engage in good faith communication, I have decided to suspend my page in protest. More information here
https://www.patreon.com/posts/upcoming-forced-149453909
Show threadCheesenessJan 30
I wish I wasn't surprised to see #DarkPattern bollocks from #Patreon with the position and styling of cancel options changing constantly. These confirmation popups were all from the same page, following the same steps (I'm confident there were more - I'd gone through a dozen or so cancellations before I thought to take any screenshots)
Show threadCheesenessJan 30
Since I'm cancelling my memberships out of protest as well, I wanted to message everybody to apologise before cancelling, and you can't message a creator from the membership page on your setting screen (which is where you have to cancel from) and you can't cancel your membership from a creator's page (which is where you can send messages from)
Show threadCheesenessJan 31

I've updated my post with some information on what makes the billing models Patreon is retiring important (why this matters outside the context of them going back on past apologies/misrepresenting the power Apple has over them).

TL;DR: per-creation and month in-arrears billing resist capitalist pressures and give agency to both creators and supporters in ways that the replacement model does not.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/upcoming-forced-149453909

Show threadCheesenessMar 6

I have been told that the "dark pattern" stuff mentioned earlier in this thread with confirmation of cancellation was "A/B testing." Which is... not what A/B testing is. I've asked for a formal apology and will be inviting my supporters in the EU (where that stuff is regulated) to make a fuss.

I have though, finally, managed to speak to someone who seems engaged and to some extent willing to read my messages and try to provide answers.

It's still incredibly draining and frustrating.

Show threadCheesenessMar 6
As part of working toward decoupling my stuff from Patreon, I made a little support gateway thingy (the longer term plan is to have a more personal version of this page on the Cheese Talks site, replace this with something more business-like that links to that instead)
https://jbushproductions.com/support/
J Bush Productions

Creating games and digital experiences from the small island of Lutruwita/Tasmania, Australia.

J Bush Productions
Show threadMrBondMar 6

@Cheeseness "we are using various dark patterns in A/B testing" is, uh

one heck of a position

Show threadCheesenessMar 6
@mrbond My response was "I find that incredibly difficult to take at face value. By definition, A/B testing requires an A group and a B group. What possible insight could be gained from showing the same user a different UI for the same interaction multiple times in a row within seconds/minutes? Are you certain that is the answer Patreon wants to give for this?"
Show threadDamon L. WakesJan 30
@Cheeseness At least one of them throws in the universally understood "✨here's some junk to ignore" emoji.
Show threadCheesenessJan 30
@DamonWakes lol, I think I have emjomjom blindness. It took me a minute to find it
Show threadJPJan 30
@Cheeseness sorry it came to this. appreciate you standing up for people.
Show threadCheesenessJan 30
@jplebreton Thank you. I'm a big old mound of stress right now, and the reassurance helps.
Show threadMrBondJan 30

@Cheeseness Continuing to fight the good fight; thank you.

Glad you still accept via LiberaPay.

Show threadizzy boiii ✈️ Swizzle.funJan 28
@Cheeseness they should just leave the iphone to rot and decay without them
Show threadCheesenessJan 28
@rh2 Especially now, in this global/cultural moment, being beholden to and strengthening ties with Apple is a massive red flag