Mastodawn

@QasimRashid BBC: "Videos of naked and bloodied women filmed by Hamas on the day of the attack, and photographs of bodies taken at the sites afterwards, suggest that women were sexually targeted by their attackers.
Few victims are thought to have survived to tell their own stories.
Their last moments are being pieced together from survivors, body-collectors, morgue staff and footage from the attack sites." 2/2

@Polylect @QasimRashid

Do you have a link for this? That stuff was initially reported, much of it later retracted, many of the first responders have retracted statements

not to say the victims of Oct 7th didn't die horrible deaths, or that no sexual assaults occurred, but the case is much more murky and many of those initial reports have been either unverified or debunked entirely

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-2-debunked-accounts-of-sexual-violence-on-oct-7-fueled-a-global-dispute-over-israel-hamas-war

How 2 debunked accounts of sexual violence on Oct. 7 fueled a global dispute over Israel-Hamas war

The United Nations and other organizations have presented credible evidence that Hamas militants committed sexual assault during their Oct. 7 attack in southern Israel. But some accounts from that day proved untrue.

PBS News

Waluigi Galleani

@Polylect @QasimRashid

" That leaves only two people who claimed they witnessed rape. The government of Israel’s entire case for mass rape is built on two allegations: a source known as “Witness S.,” or Sapir, put forward by the police, and an Israel Defence Forces (IDF) special forces soldier, Raz Cohen. The soldier has changed his story numerous times, making it suspect, while Sapir’s account is so fantastical as to defy belief, as explained below. "

https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2024/03/05/israel-hamas-oct7-report-gaza

Claims of Mass Rape by Hamas Unravel Upon Investigation

Discover insightful articles on Claims of Mass Rape by Hamas Unravel Upon Investigation. Join us in exploring solutions for a just, sustainable, and compassionate world. #Claims of Mass Rape by Hamas Unravel Upon Investigation

YES! Magazine

@purusa The quotes are from:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181 (Dec. 2023)

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/04/middleeast/sexual-assault-october-7-israel-witness-int/index.html (Apr. 2024)

You can get an unbiased (as opposed to Qasim's "report") overview of the discussion on wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel

Even the most ardent Hamas supporters don't deny that there was sexual violence they just claim it shouldn't be called "mass rape" or "weaponising sexual violence". These claims (I would say) miss the point.

Israel Gaza: Hamas raped and mutilated women on 7 October, BBC hears

The BBC has seen and heard evidence that Hamas fighters committed horrific sexual violence in Israel.

@Polylect

Those two articles are quite old, December 2023 and April 2024 respectively, the CNN article relies almost exclusively on Raz Cohen -- who as i said, is not very consistent or objective -- and the BBC article relies heavily on Zaka, who, as the is discussed in the pbs and yes articles, are not trained in forensics and simply assumed mutilated partially clothed bodies must have been raped ( which is not necessary the case -- a bomb or machine gun will rip up your clothes and leave you in an undignified position.

The Wikipedia article doesn't contradict the PBS or Yes articles I shared, in fact it tells a rather ambiguous story, consistant with what Qasim is saying

> As of January 2025, the former head of the security cases division in Israel's Southern District prosecutor's office said that no case was being filed due to a lack of evidence and complainants.

Later on in the article, Gaz is quoted a year earlier saying:

> n the end, we have no complainants. What was presented in the media compared to what will ultimately emerge will be completely different. Either because the victims were murdered, or because the women who were raped by them are not prepared to reveal it.

Now it might be that is the case, that the victims and witnesses are are dead, or refuse to come forward, and because of Israeli's refusal to properly forensically document the crime scene, we will never know

Which is why no responsible person would claim in absolute terms that no rapes occurs, but the characterization of the October 7th as a mass rape is dubious, because the evidence for this is all hearsay at best if not intentionally exaggerated by Israel ( who themselves systematically use rape as a weapon of war against Palestinians .)

What Qasim is saying is in line with the evidence, and cites many of the things in the wikipedia article

@purusa What Qasim is doing is that he takes the Israeli prosecutors' statements out of context in order to allege that a low number of court cases actually means that Hamas doesn't use sexual violence in their fight for the annihiltion of the Jewish people. EOD for me (Sorry but I 'm not really interested in this discussion, I just think sometimes that confronting people with reality might actually educate them....).

@Polylect

The article makes no such defense of Hamas

"Israel’s oldest newspaper, Haaretz, reports that Israel is actively blocking the UN from investigating sexual crimes allegedly committed by Hamas on October 7. A thorough investigation could place Hamas on the UN’s blacklist of entities guilty of sexual violence—a critical step toward justice.

(...)

So to keep track, the narrative transitioned from “overwhelming evidence” in November of 2023, to “reasonable grounds but unfounded rape allegations” in March of 2024, to “we don’t have any complainants” in January of 2025. Does this make any sense to anyone? And to make matters even more obscure, Haaretz is now reporting that even as the UN seeks permission from Israel to conduct a thorough investigation into Hamas’ alleged sex crimes, the Israeli government is blocking access altogether.

So, we must ask—why is Israel obstructing this investigation and protecting Hamas?"

Taking a stab at the question, he speculates that the reason why Israel is blocking the investigation is because it would embarrass Israel by both exposing it's own crimes and while finding little to no evidence of mass rape on October 7th, which isn't really a reach

"confronting people with reality " indeed

@purusa Now look at this obedient chihuahua, coming to his master's heel and yapping that there was no dogwhistle while daddy Qasim is whistling full-throatedly... You think you're Matt Gaetz to your Qasim's Trump? It would be less harmful if you'd go and masturbate over your Great Grand Wizard's NFTs than to annoy other people with your hypocritic sanctimony. https://opensea.io/collection/trump-digital-trading-cards

@Polylect

I don't even know Qasim but you're clearly misrepresenting him, probably because you hate muslims, why don't you go join the IDF so you can rape Palestinians yourself you piece of shit

How are you gonna act like you hate Trump when you are a stooge for Netanyahu? You know Bibi personally helped get Trump elected so he could get even more of a free hand exterminating women and children

You know it's official state policy for the IDF to rape palestinian prisoners right? Israeli members of parliament say it's own right to rape terrorists.

@Polylect

it's pretty disgusting that you act like you have some moral high ground when you're defending a government that systematically rapes and slaughters innocent civilians on a daily basis

Taqwa System

Jan 11, 2025

@Polylect @purusa so you like one facist and dislike another facist?

@trans_caracal I don't know what you mean. Stating that Hamas raped women and children on Oct 7 means not supporting the Israeli government. And btw Netanyahu is a corrupt crook that should never have gotten to power but not even had the decency to resign after his government's failures to protect Israeli lives - but he is not a fascist in any meaningful sense of the word.