PhilipTheBucketFor anyone who like me was unaware why Trump all of a sudden cares about Greenland and Panama
Y’all act like this is solely a Trump thing, but the US was expanding and annexing territory in the arctic during the Biden admin, while getting all of their “allies” to expend all of their military assets & ammunition reserves on a proxy war and a genocide.
It would be unwise to assume this is another crackpot Trump scheme, and not something the MIC & intelligence agencies have been preparing for years.
Reported for misinformation. Usually I think the propagandists can just be dealt with by disagreeing in the comments and letting people figure out who is and isn’t full of shit, but this has crossed into the territory of being pure annoying noise.
Do you bother trying to look into anything, or do you just immediately label anything you don’t like as misinformation?
…colorado.edu/…/us-defines-outer-limits-its-conti…
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66984944.amp
Denmark donated all of their F-16s to Ukraine, and aren’t expecting the replacement F-35s for years, leaving them in a worse defensive position for Greenland: reuters.com/…/f-16-jets-being-sent-ukraine-denmar…
So your claim is that sending a few science vessels into the north impacted our ability to help in Ukraine?
I would not advise trying to engage in a back-and-forth.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmVkJvieaOA
The whole series is an interesting and somehow still relevant look at how dishonest debate on the internet tends to work. It’s a little bit dated because it comes from the era of freelancers, not today’s polished professionals, but a lot of the techniques of argument are the same. There is simply no good result, by engaging with them in a factual discussion, any more than you can win a chess game against someone who insists on moving pieces wherever they feel like moving them and keeps insisting that you’re breaking the rules and they’re winning.
The Alt-Right Playbook: Never Play Defense
patreon: http://patreon.com/InnuendoStudiostumblr: http://innuendostudios.tumblr.comtwitter: https://twitter.com/InnuendoStudiostranscript: http://innuendost...
Surprise, surprise. Philip doesn’t like pushback against his NATO propaganda, and wants people to look away.
I provided sources, Phil. They can decide for themselves. And your desperate plea for them to look away just gives away the game you’re playing.
Here’s what I think you should do:
- Stop using the buzzwords. I get what you’re trying to do by introducing “blue MAGA” and “Trump Derangement Syndrome” into the conversation, but to people who are paying attention, it’s a massive red flag about what you’re trying to do. It will overshadow any more authentic-seeming point you’re trying to make.
- Don’t tangle up multiple issues. You can say that the Biden administration supported a genocide in Gaza, or try to make this particular point about how invading Greenland is somehow consistent with previous US foreign policy, or that Ukraine is Nazis, or that Wikipedia is selling out their editors to fascist governments (that was you, right?). But combining all of them together into one account makes you stand out like a beacon. I think you want to silo your talking points more. Use one or at most two per account.
- If someone calls you out for being a propagandist, take that as a learning opportunity. What did you do that gave the game away? In this case, it was some kind of previous interaction I had with you. I don’t remember what it was, although I think it was about Wikipedia, but it was something totally nutty that you were saying that you were insisting made sense. It meant I was dead certain that I could open your profile to the first page and find lots of material to point out about where you’re coming from. If someone does call you out, definitely don’t double down and amplify the volume of that conversation. Just dismiss it and go back to what you wanted to talk about.
- I think you want to involve more general discussion and chatter into your accounts. Be yourself! Remember, you can have normal conversations. Not everything has to be about NATO. If you like hunting and riding four-wheelers, talk about that. If you’re just this guy who loves ATVs and being out in nature, but also thinks the US government is crazy for sending all this money to Zelensky when we have nothing to do with what’s going on in Ukraine, that’s going to blend in a lot better. Right now you’re acting almost like a caricature of a propaganda account, where everything has to tie back to Biden, NATO, and European geopolitics, all the variety of issues are all mushed together, and almost half your comments tie back to some talking point. A lot of the propagandists take this really low-effort style of commenting about their smokescreen of non-talking-point issues, but I think that’s a mistake, because someone who’s paying attention can see through it and it becomes a way to detect you.
I think you’re doing really well though! In particular, I think you did a pretty good job with the deflection to taking some factual claim you made in service of that larger Frankenstein’s monster of bad reasoning, and insisting that the original claim is factual, you backed it up and showed sources, everyone’s just trying to cover it up because they hate the truth. That part was good. It redirected (or tried to, if I had taken the bait) away from the larger issue and into weird minutiae where you can defend that one detail point. So you have the argumentation down pretty well. You just need to introduce more cover to make it a more realistic account, and do a better job of what issues to focus on how much, and I think you can do really well.
Doug HollandPhilip, this is a frickin’ masterpiece. You ought to charge admission.
The joy of reading it justifies not (yet) expelling @surph_ninja.
I’ll open up a Patreon. Freelance NATO propagandist. At the silver tier, you can sync a tier list of Lemmy’s greatest propaganda accounts to your client, so a link appears on every one of their comments showing their propaganda tier and a link to them getting ridiculed in some previous comments section.
I label anyone who uses “blue MAGA,” says Biden and Trump have equal levels of corruption, uses the phrase “Trump Derangement Syndrome,” and says that Ukraine is Nazis, misinformation, yes.
I’m not even slightly interesting in a conversation about how “annexing territory in the arctic” equals invading Greenland or how we’re expending all our military assets sending aid to Ukraine. I wish we were expending our military assets sending aid to Ukraine. If we were actually emptying the warehouses completely sending them whatever they need, and not putting silly bureaucratic restrictions on how they can use it while fighting for their lives, then they might be winning the war. Instead, they get just enough to continue a long, bloody, pointless stalemate which has been a catastrophe for both Russia and Ukraine.
Yes, you also repeatedly deny knowledge of the very world events you continually post articles promoting and spreading propaganda for (here we go again).
You’re an astroturfing propagandist.
Stupid and gullible I’ll tolerate here, but you’re starting to smell like a troll. Change my mind.
I gotta say, since I already spent way too much time re-reading this conversation. As much as I don’t agree with @[email protected]’s extrapolation of previous facts into how they apply for this conversation today. They make a clear arguement, based in the reality we all live in and back it up with how they got there.
Even looking over their post history, I find plenty of strong arguments they bring to conversations that I tend to agree with from my understanding of the world today. Once again, I don’t agree with what they are saying here, but I don’t believe this behavior is “trolling”. If we want open discourse people need to be able to have strong opinions regardless of how much everyone else agrees.
That’s my take, too, except for the part about looking at @surph_ninja’s (or anyone’s) post history. Life is too short and this thread too unimportant for such investigations.
Fair, life is too short for a lot that I do online, but I’m cursed with a day job that requires me in front of the computer all day and find looking over the comment/post history of a user can be helpful when trying to determine if I would consider them a troll worth blocking and never listening to again.
Yeah. It’s sort of sad that the nature of the network is such that it’s sometimes necessary to invest some effort in figuring out what the history is, of the person you’re talking to, whether they’re coming from a place of conversation or a place of broadcasting a bad-faith argument to distort the conversation, but them’s the breaks. I think it’s necessary sometimes to be a pain in the ass about these types of minor annoyances, or else they’ll take over and the whole place will be populated with only annoyance instead of real conversation between humans.
What do you think your post history says about you? What impression do you think people get from continually pushing US propaganda, telling other people not to engage with people or read sources that counter your narrative, and attacking everyone who disagrees with ad hominems?
Better yet, what do you think your constant comments on strategies for running bots is making people think? You really believe people are stupid enough to think, ‘gee, surely if he was an astroturfer he wouldn’t be telling people exactly how to astroturf.’ Hanging a lantern on it isn’t the brilliant strategy you seem to believe it to be.
Oops, you’re right, I need to make some smokescreen posts. I posted a B movie to a media community just now. Maybe too much effort, though. It took a few minutes, I could have spent that on like 5 random memes I found on the internet thrown around in a meme community.