@uint8_t @pezmico I knew someone would doubt it… The issue is complex, and yes, smart phones may not be so bad. In theory. But they are in practice. I don't have time to give a full answer, so only a couple of points.

Manufacturing v. length of the renewal cycle (forced by relevant apps no longer supporting OS versions older than a few years).

Infrastructure. Apps have a server part which consume a lot of energy. Not just genAI, but all the ad tracking and analysis. Engagement.

@uint8_t @pezmico Er, can we agree on the problem statement?

Are you trying to prove that smartphones do not greatly contribute to a collapsing biosphere, or are you trying to prove that smartphones are not the greatest contributor to a collapsing biosphere? I have never claimed the latter, so maybe there is in fact nothing to argue about.

@ptesarik @pezmico my statement is that smartphones do not _significantly_ contribute to ecosystem collapse. you could achieve much better results by eliminating industrial animal farming, monoculture, car dependency, fossil fuel heating and electricity generation, than eliminating smartphones.

so unless the goal is the complete retvrn to preindustrial standards of living, maybe we should focus elsewhere from an environmental protection perspective.