BlackEcoVolkswagen has been collecting geolocation data from their smart cars, which were accidentally made public
stoyWhat models have they tracked?
Hard to know as the whole presentation hasn’t been released yet, for now only people who were in the conference room would know.
VakbrainLet’s be real, any VW cars with a head unit with maps capabilities and a SIM card are certainly tracked down. Why would it be limited to electric drive trained cars only? There’s no GPS in the motors… It’s in the head unit
DojanThis echoes my thought. A friend of mine had a petrol driven Golf from like 2019 or so with an app he could use to access it. I think it had a GPS built in, so I don’t see why VW wouldn’t have been able to record that.
Car manufacturers don’t face nearly enough scrutiny or regulation as they ought.
Very powerful lobby in a lot of countries.
Encephalotrocityall their electric cars
…
All new cars
It doesn’t say ‘new’. It says in both the source tweet and linked event scheduling description ‘electric cars’. Not new, not all… electric.
Does my 2021 Seat Leon FR PHEV count as an EV in this case?
PHEV
Electric is in the name…
Oh, fuck off with your sarcastic answers, sometimes a PHEV does count as an EV, other times it absolutely does not count.
So where does it state that PHEVs are counted in this case?
… it. is. in. the. name.
…
The. Name. Does. Not. Mean. Anything. Unless. Specified. Directly.
For fuck sake.
Except. the. name. specifies. electric. vehicle. ffs
Name noun 1a: a word or phrase that constitutes the distinctive designation of a person or thing
That. Is. My. Point.
The. Seat. Leon. Mk4. Exists. In. Both. A. Normal. Petrol. Version. And. A. PHEV. Version.
The rest of the car is the same, so is it included?
You could just not have replied at all.
The rest of the car is the same
See, this right here. You have no clue of the subject but you get pissed off instead of listening. They are absolutely not the same, which is why they get different names. Your EV is… an EV. The other model… isn’t
Hey it looks like some other guy didn’t help you much. I’m not going to help much either but I’d imagine that if your model has any kind of smart infotainment type of thing then it’s probably being tracked. I mean, from a business perspective, why wouldn’t you? It’d be lovely to have systems that allow you to navigate, take photos, listen to music, contact friends…without spying on you. Sadly, I don’t think companies see such things as being in their interests.
If you do find a list anywhere, I’d be interested to know. I don’t have a VW - just a petrol ford focus, but I imagine that my data is being collected in much the same way as this.
I suspect as much.
Still, it would be nice to get a clear yes/no answer.
I am already certain that my car is one of those privacy nightmares as reported on by Mozilla, and it would be good to know how screwed I actually am.
As for why a car maker wouldn’t track the car and spy on the occupants, GDPR is a huge reason, I just hope that it gets used
Well yes - I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that legislation is our best hope here. Not in my country, mind you, where I guarantee you that all we will get is lip-service to privacy, data protection, etc.
It. Has. A combustion. Engine. Inside.
Because it is an electric vehicle with a generator. Hence why it wasn’t named a PHCE
Electric cars are more associated with smart junk but most of it is in newer ICE cars as well. What engine the car has is of little relevance to the computer system.
In the now-released video, he mentions that it’s all the cars that use the MED-platform, which happens to be electric cars.
Specifically, he mentions these models:
- VW ID.3, ID.5, ID.7
- Skoda Enyaq
- Audi Q4 e-tron
- Seat Cupra Born
I don’t know, if this is a comprehensive list.
It’s mentioned around 3:30 in the video.
Wir wissen wo dein Auto steht - Volksdaten von Volkswagen
Ah, thank you!
So the Leon is not included, thank you for clearing that up (:
They do actually mention the Leon on one slide at 13:48 and then another at 16:35. The first is related to enrollment data, which is basically whether you’re using their app + some metadata. The second one relates to their fleet management solution, which does allow them to collect position data, apparently. But I think, the Leon is not part of this leak, at least. At 22:26, they show the list of models that are part of the leak and the Leon is not mentioned.
Pretty much all objects with Internet connections that aren’t running FOSS top-to-bottom.
OmegaSurprisingly little in Turkey
Same in Spain
Chaos Communication Congress is such a cool event… 🇩🇪🇩🇪🇩🇪
Last year, they hacked a train to prove that the manufacturing company wrote code that fully locks the train when it arrives at a rival repair shops.
jagged_circleIs there a company yet that let’s me pay them to internet disconnect and rip out sensors on a modern car?
I recognize that its a tricky process, but since the Mozilla report, it seems like there’s a market for it. I’d happily pay $5k for a privacy-mod to an electric vehicle.
You misspelled: “I will happily re-elect and maybe donate to someone that will vote against this bullshit use of people’s data.”
Money votes better, it’s 2024.
No
I don’t want this data to exist
That’s different from controlling use
Either way, it’s better not to force people to pay to keep their privacy.
Das Dumbass
VeganPizza69 ⓋIt’s a well known privacy issue to those who care about privacy. It’s Official: Cars Are Terrible at Privacy and Security
The good news is that it this information will eventually reach the insurance companies. That should help with terrible car drivers getting some incentives and disincentives to not suck so much.
Automakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies - The New York Times
If you want freedom, you get a bicycle.
Nah, it’ll just make insurance more expensive and allow them to have more excuses to deny claims. Giving insurance companies more data to work with is never a good thing.
Deny claims and raise the premium.
Don’t want to deal with car insurance? Help end car dependency.
Slow!=good, slow is just slow. Driving 25 in a 35 doesn’t make you a better driver.
But lowering the speed limit to 25 and redisigning the street so 25 feels fast does increase safety.
Putting digital GPS governors in all the cars to limit them to the speed limit also increases safety. If e-bikes are dangerous enough to require governors, then cars certainly need them as well.
Neither of these ideas are remotely related to the topic.
I just watched the video. It is again a great and understandable talk, even for someone who has little technical knowledge. They also subtitle all their videos in English. I recommend it to everyone.
Video-Link with English dub: …ccc.de/…/38c3-wir-wissen-wo-dein-auto-steht-volk…
Wir wissen wo dein Auto steht - Volksdaten von Volkswagen
Flying SquidTech bros really never got the idea that cyberpunk is a genre of dystopian fiction.
It’s a dystopic for us, for them it is the bright future
Then they need to read/watch more closely, because it isn’t all that bright for the people at the top either.
…because they think they’ll be on the profiteering side
You’re confusing the people who wrote the code with the product (business) team that decided they could monetize it. Engineers in large companies have zero creative control, and the people who do look more like wall street folks than the guys on silicon valley. Not that they don’t also suck, but please get why they suck.
No. No it does not.
Because I see you skipped the first search result I’ll put this here for you
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brogrammer
I think you might want to read that Wikipedia article, because it makes it very clear that the way you’re using it is not the only way it is used. That is generally not how people use it these days.
It always amazes me when people insist a word must have only one meaning and that must be the original meaning.
The idea that language isn’t fluid is very silly to me, and by that, I don’t mean prosperous. Maybe it isn’t the best meme.
Well the article is about two paragraphs long, so why don’t you highlight the section you think backs up your point because I sure don’t see it.
I mean it’s literally right there:
but some programmers self-describe themselves as a brogrammer positively as a word for “sociable or outgoing programmer”, and it also tends to represent a subculture within the greater tech industry.
So that’s three different meanings for the same word. Again, it sounds to me like it’s possible for words to have more than one meaning or for word meanings to change. But that’s just my liberal woke viewpoint obviously.
So you’re leaning harder into the part I took most issue with? The deciders here are not programmers. Also, that behavior is a coping mechanism for not wanting to believe they are misogynistic douches.
No, you’re right. Words only ever mean one thing and it is only the original thing they meant and not the thing they mean now. How nice of me. I’ll try not to be so prestigious in my posts from now on and try to be more of a bully.
What if tech bros could be considered bad for two reasons?
BlackmistYou can probably assume every device with satnav and an internet connection is doing this.
And those 20 pages of text you scrolled to the bottom of without reading in order to click the OK button to get the directions to the nearest McDonalds gives them every right to do so.
I am so glad my car was made just before all this massive enshittification.
Gsus4hahahaha toldya x50
A public S3 bucket that shouldn’t have been. This is AWS Practicioner level stuff.