Mastodawn

I understand why the UK government is banning puberty-blockers for minors, as it's true that very little research has been done as to the longer-term effects of the drugs on transgender children, and it is important that any treatment should be thoroughly scrutinised and researched.

Thus far, the medical treatment of transgender kids in the UK has been a shambles, so hopefully more research will help to create a stable framework on which to build coherent treatment plans to include mental health, medical, and researched pharmaceutical options for trans minors.

However, I sincerely hope there is going to be a robust support system implemented to regularly monitor their mental health as they go through puberty, because otherwise, there will inevitably be an increase in the mental illness and suicide rate.

At the very least, the kids and their families should be offered regular and frequent counselling with mental health professionals who understand gender dysphoria. So far as I'm aware, nothing of that nature has been organised, and I find that deeply concerning.

#trans #transgender #transchildren #transgenderchildren #pubertyblockers #pubertyblockersban #pubertyblockersbanuk #transrightsarehumanrights

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/puberty-blockers-ban-wes-streeting-health-children-b2662590.html?lid=tdd6b7du3ipq&empar=ae4926a15d56f43fdf2934b55ce49614ae857782c871325642fed7c626f30d90

Health Secretary Wes Streeting announces ‘indefinite’ ban on puberty blockers for children

Wes Streeting warns over the ‘unacceptable safety risk’ in continued prescription of puberty blockers to children

The Independent

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Ada Dec 12, 2024

@RosaTheWitch You can take the "trans ally" bit out of your profile.

You don't create the support and framework you want to see, by taking away existing healthcare options based on fear mongering.

You state that you support the ban because of 'lack of evidence, whilst then calling for "counselling" to address gender dysphoria, an approach that has zero evidence of efficacy.

I get that you might not be across the nuances of this topic, but if you mean it when you say you're an ally, that means your job is to not offer ill informed opinions supporting the removal of our healthcare needs when you don't understand the topic.

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Rosa Hekatena Dec 12, 2024

@ada I didn't say I supported the ban. I said I understood why it was being put in place, because there isn't a lot of evidence about puberty blockers - and that's unfortunately due to a shocking lack of research on pretty much everything to do with trans people and transitioning.

Until fairly recently, with all the anti-trans hate that is sadly going on now, not much research on puberty blockers has been done, as nobody thought it was important. The people in charge of funding were just not interested in helping transgender people. However, now trans issues are a hot topic, and a polarising one at that, there are starting to be rumblings of more interest in research and healthcare plans for those transitioning, including minors.

If - and it's a very big if - the subsequent data does lead to a set of nationwide standards of care for all transgender people who are transitioning, including children, that would be fantastic, but I'm very cynical that any overhaul of NHS trans care is actually going to come to fruition.

I feel that there is currently so much prejudice against transgender people and trans rights, that the people who would be needed in order to research, create and implement any such plan, arguably don't have any interest in helping transgender people, including children. *Especially* children. Amassing solid research is rendered impotent if it doesn't actually lead to change.

I think this whole thing is being very badly handled - I absolutely do not think that removing puberty blockers from children who have already begun taking them is a good idea, and while I think there does need to be an abundance of caution regarding puberty blockers while research is carried out, I feel that there should be a better way to do this.

I'm not sure there needs to be a ban - perhaps if families signed a waiver, or something along those lines, I don't know - because I feel like the implementation of a blanket ban has been created because of fear of litigation, and political point-scoring, rather than acting with transgender children's needs in mind.

Regarding mental health support and counselling, I didn't make myself clear, sorry. I'm aware that therapies surrounding gender dysphoria are fundamentally flawed, but that wasn't what I was referring to. I was arguing that at the bare minimum, families should have help provided specifically for the inevitable fallout from the ban - not for dealing with gender dysphoria itself.

Pulling the rug from under these kids and their families is, I feel, reckless in the extreme, and endangers their lives. I honestly feel that there should be substantial help in place for the anxiety, depression and suicidal ideation that will inevitably ensue. Ideally the therapists would have experience in the field of gender dysphoria and transitioning, but only as a background to the main job of frankly, keeping these kids alive.

I hope I've made myself a bit clearer. Obviously, I cannot pretend to know how transgender and nonbinary people are feeling, but I'm deeply disturbed by the current onslaught of anti-trans hate. In my life I've been fortunate to have known some wonderful transgender and intersex people, and it's hard to get the TERFs and anti-trans brigade to understand that they are just ordinary people doing ordinary things. I use the term ally because although we've lost touch over the years, they were my friends, and it makes me sick to the stomach seeing what is happening nowadays, and wondering if they are OK. I really hope they are OK. 🏳‍⚧

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Ada Dec 13, 2024

@RosaTheWitch For many trans folk, puberty blockers are the only chance they have to avoid a lifetime of expensive surgeries undoing the changes that the wrong puberty forces on them.

Whilst there is little research done on puberty blockers, what we do know is that they save lives, and that in the decades they've been used, they've yet to show any significant health risks to the people who use them. Unlike the life saving effect they have for trans kids who need them, which are known, if there are risks to puberty blockers, they're small enough that they aren't visible without dedicated research. Which is to say, the unknown risks, if they exist, don't compare to the benefit they bring.

The only reason they're banned is transphobia. They only reason "reasonable discussion" is seen as reasonable is transphobia. Remember, this started as "We don't want trans kids to have surgery". Puberty blockers are the alternative to that, that let trans kids reach adulthood with the ability to make choices about their own life, without being forced through years of dysphoria that can never be fixed. And now the non permanent alternative is being targeted, because it's got nothing to do with trans kids wellbeing and everything to do with transphobia

You need to understant, that when you jump in to this conversation and claim that the things the transphobes are asking for is "reasonable" and that our healthcare should be put on hold until more research is done, what you're actually empowering is the outright removal of our healthcare, because you're empowering the bigots who removed it in the first place, and have no intention of funding research to return it.

Obviously, I cannot pretend to know how transgender and nonbinary people are feeling, Then please listen when I tell you that you need to keep well away from this topic, and stop empowering the idea that doubts about valid trans healthcare are reasonable and warranted.

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Rosa Hekatena Dec 13, 2024

@ada I clearly stated that I don't support taking away puberty blockers. Also, I know there haven't been any notable side-effects from them, but if transgender people want to continue having access to the blockers, then there is no way round the fact that every NHS-backed drug and treatment in the UK has to be fully approved by NICE, and if NICE want more information, it doesn't matter to them that there haven't been any major problems thus far - they have to follow protocol. Aside from the question of how blockers would be provided to the children who need them, I imagine the safety aspect would actually be concluded fairly quickly, for the reasons you yourself give.

Also, you say I need to stay out of the argument. Well, me personally, maybe, but the fact remains that the voices of people who are not transgender, but who support trans rights, are very much going to be needed if the way in which the UK treats transgender people is to improve, because you are exactly right when you say that the people who have the power to make things happen, generally don't want to do so.

I have heard your message, your obvious frustration is entirely valid, and I am only too happy to adjust my views accordingly, but please don't alienate anyone who is trying to help. Let us know where we're going wrong, give us the sources of the information that we need to know. Help us to understand, so we can do what we can. If there is to be any change in the way people view transgender adults and children, every voice is needed. In fact, the types of people who show outright bigotry and hate to the trans community, are more likely to pay attention to those who support trans rights who *aren't* transgender themselves. We are a resource - help us to learn, so we can represent.

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Ada Dec 13, 2024

@RosaTheWitch

then there is no way round the fact that every NHS-backed drug and treatment in the UK has to be fully approved by NICE, and if NICE want more information, it doesn't matter to them that there haven't been any major problems thus far - they have to follow protocol.This isn't a protocol issue, it's a political issue. It was banned for political reasons, because transphobia is a tool for gaining political power in the current environment. And whilst that is the case, the ban will stay, whatever the research says and whatever the protocol is.

And if the politics shift, and transphobia becomes unpalatable, then the restrictions will be liftedLet us know where we're going wrong, give us the sources of the information that we need to knowThat's what I'm doing. Yes, I'm frustrated, but that's because, as you said, the transphobes are more likely to listen to you than to me, and what you're doing is accepting the erasure of our rights, rather than pushing back against it. Your approach is to try and regain out rights, at some point in the future, after the research has been done. Research that isn't going to happen, or be acknowledged, because this is a politically motivated move against us. And your response needs to be a strong calling out of that political motivation, not accepting their framework and trying to work within it.

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Rosa Hekatena Dec 14, 2024

@ada I'm fully aware that it's a political issue. The problem is that regardless of *why* the blockers are banned, and allegedly require research, the people involved - in this instance the government and NICE - have to follow their own protocols as with any other of their 'fact-finding' missions. They are abusing those protocols because they know that legally, they're covered. So unfortunately, they are responsible for any research, and there legally isn't anything one can do about it. That's why in my original post I specifically said I 'understood' the reasoning given for the bans. I don't agree, but the arguments given are, unfortunately, pretty legally strong, and acceptable for a lot of British people.

And I do push back - you don't know me, so how do you know what I do or don't do? You've already failed to understand a lot of what I wrote. I'm a supporter of not just trans rights, but LGBTQA rights (well, I am the 'A' in the acronym), disability rights, human rights, animal rights, individual specific issues - if I can help, I will. Being bedbound, I can't do much, but I'm politically active, especially using the internet, and I keep an open mind, having no issues with constructive criticism, and with altering my views where required.

I'm not going to get everything right, because I'm not transgender, and while I've had transgender and intersex friends, I am not part of the trans community. But I'm willing to learn, and help out where possible. You acknowledge that transphobes are more likely to listen to non-trans people, but because me, and people like me, cannot grasp every single nuance of transgender life, you tell us to shut up.

While I'm not going to suddenly stop being the annoying lefty liberal that I am, (sorry about that), most people, when getting their not-quite correct efforts thrown back at them are not going to learn more about a relevant topic, or invite constructive criticism - they're eventually going to just stop giving a damn, and leave you to it.

And if that is what the people who have tried to be supportive feel - that you don't actually want help unless it's 100% tailored to one section of the transgender community - you can be absolutely certain that the people in charge who could potentially make things happen, (the government, NICE, medical professionals, researchers), are not going to see the point of doing anything to help transgender people, because sections of the trans community will hit out at even the people with the best intentions, so why should anybody else give a damn?

It's the same thing that happens in many other communities that need recognition and are trying to get people to understand them and maybe change things, so this is not an issue specific to transgender and LGBTQA communities, by any means. The difference is down to the hatred and violence facing trans people. Simply put, society is currently demonising your community, and you are turning away anyone who tries to help unless they meet a subjective ideal. Again, I'm talking about a section of your community, not the whole.

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Ada Dec 14, 2024

@RosaTheWitch

People like myself are trying to help. If we have got anything wrong, educate us. We're not going to understand what being trans is like, so of course we will get things wrong. Don't attack the people who are trying to help - teach us.Aside from a single snarky comment at the start, my many hundreds of words to you have been explaining this issue, not attacking you.

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Rosa Hekatena Dec 15, 2024

@ada Well, it didn't feel that way. Regardless, I'm sure you will agree with me that this thread needs ending. So on that note, I'll leave!