I once worked at a company that sold industry-specific core-business software to deep-pocketed corps who couldn’t / wouldn’t / shouldn’t roll their own. I got into a discuss with my manager about whether our products were essentially — my words — a hoax.

Me: “Look, our products are riddled with bugs and holes. They’re nearly impossible to deploy, manage, and maintain. They frequently don’t even work •at all• on the putative release date, and we sell the mop-up as expensive ‘consulting.’”

1/

“How can it not be a hoax?!”

He said something that completely changed how I look at the workings of business:

“Paul, you are making the mistake of comparing our software to your ideal of what it •should• be. That’s not what these companies are doing. They’re comparing it to what they already have now. And what they have now is •terrible•.”

2/

He continued: “They’re doing business with Excel spreadsheets, or ancient mainframes, or in many cases still using pen and paper processes [this was the early 00s], and those processes are just wildly labor-intensive and error-ridden. They lose unimaginable amounts of money to this. For them to pay us a measly few million to get software that takes 18 months to get deployed and just barely working? That is a •huge• improvement for them.”

In short: our product sucked, but it wasn’t a hoax.

3/

There’s a weird disconnect about gen AI between the MBA crowd and the tech crowd: either it’s the magical make-money sauce CEOs can just pour on everything, or it’s fake and it’s all a hoax.

A lot of that is just gullibility and hype at play, huge amounts of investor money and wishful thinking desperately hoping to find huge payoffs in whiz-bang tech.

But: companies do actually deploy gen AI, and it sucks, and they •don’t stop•. Why?!

4/

I suspect that conversation long ago might shed some light on how companies are actually viewing gen AI right now. Behind all the flashy “iT cOuLD bE sKYnEt” nonsense, there’s something much more disappointingly cynical but rational: Gen AI sucks. They know it sucks. But in some cases, in some situations, viewed through certain bottom-line lenses, it sucks slightly less.

5/

So Megacorp’s new AI customer support tool describes features that don’t exist, or tells people to eat nails and glue, or is just •wrong•.

Guess what? Their hapless, undertrained, poverty-wage, treated-like-dirt humans who used to handle all the support didn’t actually help people either. Megacorp demanded throughput so high and incentivized ticket closure so much that their support staff were already leading people on wild goose chases, cussing them out, and/or quitting on the spot.

6/

Gen AI doesn’t cuss people out, doesn’t quit on the spot, and has extremely high throughput. It leads people on wild goose chases •far• more efficiently than the humans. And hell, sometimes, just by dumb luck, it’s actually right! Like…maybe more than half the time!

When your previous baseline is the self-made nightmare of late stage capitalism tech support, that is •amazing•.

7/

And you can control it (sort of)! And it protects you from liability (maybe)! And all it takes is money and environmental disaster!

Run that thought process across other activites where corps are deploying gen AI.

I suspect a lot of us, despite living in this modern corporate hellscape, still fail to understand just how profoundly •broken• the operations of big businesses truly are, how much they function on fakery and deception and nonsense.

So gen AI is fake? So what. So is business.

8/

I am hamming this up for cynical dramatic effect, but I do think there’s a serious thought here: so much activity within business delivers so little of actual value to the world that replacing slow human nonsense crap with fast automated nonsense crap seems like a win.

Trying to imagine the world through MBA goggles on, it seems perfectly rational.

When people consider gen AI, I ask them to ask themselves: “Does it matter if it’s wrong?” Often, the answer is “no.”

9/

If you’ll indulge another industry story — sorry, this thread is going to get absurdly long — let me tell you about one of the worst clients I ever had:

Group of brothers. They’d made fuck-you money in marketing or something. They founded a startup with a human benefit angle, do some good for the world, yada yada.

Common now, but new-ish idea at the time: gamified online health & well-being platform that a company (or maybe insurer, whatever) offers to its employees.

10/

The big brilliant idea at the heart of the product they were building? The Life Score: a number that quantifies your overall well-being, a number that you can try to raise by doing healthy activities.

How exactly was this number to be calculated? Eh, details.

11/

They had this elaborate business plan: the market opportunity, the connections, the moving parts — and in the middle of this giant world-domination scheme, a giant hole. Just black box (currently empty) labeled “magic number that makes people get healthier.”

The core feature of their product, the lynchpin that would make the entire thing actually useful, was just a big-ass TBD.

12/

I was hired to implement, but quickly realized they had no idea what they wanted me to build. Worse: they hadn't hired any of the people (like, say, a health actuary or a behavioral psychologist) who would be remotely qualified to help them figure it out. The architect of their giant system was a chemical engineer of some kind who was trying to get into tech. Lots of big ideas about what it would •look like•, but nobody in sight had a clue how this thing would actually •work•. Zero R&D.

13/

No worries. Designers were cranking out UI! Marketers were…marketing! Turning the Life Score from vague founder notion to working system was a troublesome afterthought.

So…like a fool, I tried to help them suss it out. It turned out they •did• sort of have a notion:

1. Intake questionnaire about your lifestyle
2. Assign points to responses
3. System suggests healthy activities
4. Each activity adds points to your score if you do it

14/

And then, like a •damn• fool, I pointed out to them the gaping chasm between (2) and (4). Think about it: at the start, the score measures (however dubiously) the state of your health. But after you do some activities, the score measures how many activities you did.

The score •changes meaning• after intake. And it's designed to go up over time. Even if your health is getting worse.

And like an •utter• damn fool, I thought this was a flaw.

15/

It was only after the whole contract crashed and burned (they were, it turns out, truly awful people) that I realized that my earnest data-conscious questions were threatening their whole model.

Their product was there to make the “healthy” line go up. Not to actually make people healthy, no! Just to make the line go up.

It was an offer of plausible deniability: for users, for their employers, for everyone. We can all •pretend• we’re getting healthier! Folks will pay good money for that.

16/

Of •course• their whole business plan had a gaping hole at the center. That was the point! If that Life Score is •accurate•, if it actually describes the real-world state of a person’s health in any kind of meaningful way, that wrecks the whole thing.

Now, of course, there would be no Paul to ask them annoying questions about the integrity of their metrics. They’d just build it with gen AI.

17/

Would gen AI actually be a good way to help people get healthy with this product? No. But that was never the goal.

Would gen AI have been a good option for these rich people trying to get richer by building a giant hoax box that lets a bunch of parties plausibly claim improved employee health regardless of reality? Hell yes.

18/

Again, my gen AI question: Does it matter if it’s wrong?

I mean, in some situations, yes…right? Like, say, vehicles? that can kill people?

Tesla’s out there selling these self-crashing cars that are •clearly• not ready for prime time, and trap people inside with their unopenable-after-accident doors and burn them alive. And they’re •still• selling crap-tons of those things.

If it doesn’t matter to •them•, how many biz situations are there where “fake and dangerous” is 100% acceptable?

19/

Does it matter if it’s wrong?

In the nihilism of this current stage of capitalism, “no” sure looks like a winning bet.

/end

Because I’ve apparently driven some people to despair with this thread, some rays of hope:

First, note that point of my very first example is that the product was •not• a hoax. It really did make things better for real people. Sometimes it can be hard for perfectionists like myself to accept that better is •better•. Sometimes we do actually build things that matter, even if they kind of stink relative to some nonexistent Platonic ideal. Take the win, Paul!

Ah, but the rest of the thread…

A/1

As many point out, there are systemic forces at play that create these situations where “fake and dangerous” is acceptable to a business, even if it harms actual humans. It’s not just that there are awful people; it’s that our system creates the awful people it needs.

Leaving aside grandiose utopian theories, a few concrete things that could help:

1. Giving antitrust real teeth
2. Repeat 1 for emphasis
3. Making industry less investor-driven
4. …which means reducing wealth inequality

A/2

Expanding on 3 & 4 a bit: Right now, there’s a huge mass of concentrated wealth whose owners aren’t going to spend it, so they want to invest it. And they want returns. They want more returns than actually are out there to be found. So industry needs to •invent• those returns.

That means a company that will never and can never ever deliver anything of true value can still make it if in convinces investors it might grow.

“Does it matter if it’s wrong?” Not if it's convincing to investors!

A/3

Much the same thing created the 2008 mortgage crisis. Wealth needs a place to roost → mortgages look safe → more demand for mortgage investments than there are mortgages → people find ways to invent mortgages that shouldn’t exist, to attract investment.

Then: mortgages. Now: AI.

It’s not just a hype bubble; it’s an “oversupply of investment dollars” bubble. Is there a word for that? I am not an economist.

@Npars01 replied with more on this here: https://mstdn.social/@Npars01/113604472161286632

A/4

Nicole Parsons (@[email protected])

@[email protected] Extend this thought experiment to political campaign funding and tech billionaires. Silicon Valley bought an election win for a set of GOP crooks because "innovation" has been redefined as: 1. Successful scams & frauds 2. Tax evasion 3. Corporate welfare & subsidies 4. Monopolies 5. Regulatory capture 6. Pollution & climate denial 7. Deregulation Silicon Valley does not want saleable products that generate revenue. They want Saudi cash. They want Russian oligarchs... 1/2

Mastodon 🐘

Weirdly, the old consumer-driven version of capitalism, where profit came from sales, now looks lovely compared to the current investor-driven version where profit comes from wooing the ultra-wealthy.

Sorry, Marxists in the replies, I am not optimistic about the inevitable market swing bringing about revolution and glorious utopia. It didn’t in 2008, and it won’t now either. But I do believe the pendulum will swing back, at least.

And we do have greater than zero power to help it swing.

A/5

OK, I promised you optimism:

The world, including the business world, is •full• of good people doing good things. Yes, there are actually businesses that do manage to do good sometimes…but that's not where I’m going with this.

Even in the most useless, soul-sucking, useless, everything-is-fake business environment, there are people solving fun problems, forming collegial relationships, being kind to each other, finding joy in the mundane. And •that• is life’s real work.

A/6

Yes, a whole lot of business activity is fake. It’s playing with sand castles and pretending that princesses are going to live in them. But hell, at least it’s people playing!

If like me it’s hard for you to keep the MBA goggles on, and you keep asking “What about real good for real people?!,” well, all the sand castles come and go, profits come and go, and the lives lived along the way matter more than any of it.

A/7

I don’t want to downplay the harm our systems do. The world is •full• of preventable harm. It’s enraging, and it’s heartbreaking.

All I’m saying is this: don’t neglect the importance of the humans living their lives in the middle of all the corporate nonsense. I’m concerned about the quality of the product, but in the end, I’m a lot more concerned about the lives of the people building and using it. And the product isn’t the most important thing in any of their lives.

A/8

Even in the fakest and most ridiculous places I’ve worked, including the ones upthread, I’ve seen people being beautiful, exemplary frigging human beings, caring for each other, living good lives that are bigger and better and so much more important than the boulder we’re rolling up the hill just to see it roll down.

•That• is the most important thing in the world. I’d like less waste along the way. I’d sure like less harm. But I recognize that we are very, very far from hopeless.

A/9

@inthehands

finger to the moon, man

@inthehands In the end I feel like our economic world is a house of cards that holds up so many people doing silly things.

But those things let them have full and interesting lives. It is an inefficient make work program.

We should lift more people up with it so they can be better enabled and supported in their full and interesting lives.

And also pushing the pendulum towards the work itself being a little more meaningful and beneficial.

@inthehands

Well. All that will crash soon or later. Except if there is a next step in the ponzi scheme. Whereas it's a war or else.

It shows those companies are weak. And could be outperformed by competitors. Nd they are buying those competitors (consolidtating market) to avoid the threat with investors money.

@inthehands all of this was brilliant. Great insight. Hate how things are now, but you give really great ideas here as to how we'd have to move forward. Antitrust for real.

@inthehands a thought provoking read on the current state of the old adage of 'building a better mousetrap'. Not perfect - better. Thank you.

On a related note, if you're so inclined, and have any interest in the banking and monetary foundation underneath the business layer, have a read of the book: The Creature from Jekyll Island.

Blew my mind ...

@inthehands I wanted a proper keyboard to reply but it turns out all I wanted to say is I know a lot of people are ONLY taking the bad from this, but I see where you're going and the nuance around it, and I really appreciate the insistence on the whole picture.

I just wish young naive you's priorities were the ones running this show. Imagine if we were living those good lives for more hours per day because we weren't doing utter circular nonsense half our shifts or worse and could focus our human endeavours on the things that keep us human. We can have that. It's gonna take work to get there, but it's possible.

@inthehands 100%.. I do get some fun projects at my otherwise meaningless corporate gig and there are some good people I work with. And I've been able to spend years pushing against those that would squeeze the little guy for an extra penny of profit. As long as I'm able to do that and the company isn't causing harm... 🤷‍♂️ It's a paycheck I can live with!

@inthehands
In addition to investor-scams that can never deliver, it's worth noting how many industries have adopted the airline practice of boosting profits by restricting supply.

In many industries, "growth" doesn't come from selling more. In fact, it comes by raising prices while restricting supply (also lowering COGS). This works very well when an industry is consolidating.

@inthehands IMHO, the status quo is in large part the consequence of the “shareholder value uber allies” mentality of contemporary business. It’s a damn poor foundation for a corporate value system that serves society.

@inthehands @Npars01

it is called money printers.

it was makes capitalists capitalists.
access to the money printers sets the capitalist class apart drom the rest of us "plebs".

ending money printers does not remove inequality over night, but its pretty much a prerequisite for anything else you want to try. removing the money printers puts as all in the same class.

money printers is how billionaires get rich.

call it (investment) banks or VCs or call it government. there are quite a few

@inthehands @Npars01 I think the word is secular stagnation - too much investment money in an economy with too little demand creating too little growth for "real" places to put it. We need a better word though. I think it's a key concept for our times - we just don't need any more "stuff" - and secular stagnation has no riz.

@inthehands

One of the alternative "investments" being made is public corruption in broad daylight.

Using campaign finance & Citizens United, #KochNetwork #RockbridgeNetwork , #AtlasNetwork converted constitutional democracy into kleptocracy.

Elon Musk bought a president for a quarter billion bucks. A bargain. He now gets to enrich himself on the taxpayers dime now.
https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/elon-musk-trump-donations-2024-election-rcna183231

The Supreme Court has legalized bribery of elected officials, and relabeled it as "a gratuity".

Elon Musk contributed $250 million to help Trump win the election

Elon Musk contributed more than a quarter of a billion dollars to help Donald Trump win the 2024 election, according to new filings with the Federal Election Commission.

MSNBC
Donald Trump Jr. Will Reportedly Join An Anti-ESG Venture Capital Firm Instead Of The White House—Here’s What We Know

President-elect Donald Trump’s oldest son is reportedly set to join 1789 Capital—a venture capital firm that invests in conservative-leaning companies.

Forbes
@Npars01 @inthehands It’s all going to come tumbling down and they’re blind to see it from their lofty towers.
Both the people and the planet just can’t take it anymore.
@bouriquet @Npars01
Sooner or later, yes, it has to. My concern is who gets hurt along the way.

@inthehands

A concrete step that I'd like to see is this...

Create additional legal, fiduciary responsibility for corporate directors and executives beyond the current "make money for investors". Such duties could include duty of care to workers/contractors/vendors, duty of customer safety, duty to the environment, etc