Can anyone help me understand why Hasan Piker is so popular in leftist political spaces?

https://lemmy.world/post/22695396

Can anyone help me understand why Hasan Piker is so popular in leftist political spaces? - Lemmy.World

This guy’s dad is the former VP of a multibillion dollar Turkish conglomerate, as well as the secretary of a government department. Mom and Dad were able to fly to their other home in NJ to give birth so he’d get US citizenship. His uncle is the founder and owner of TYT Media and gave him his media career. He went to Rutgers. He lives in a multimillion dollar mansion in the Hollywood Hills. This is by definition not the kind of person who can be a voice of the People. Saying “I recognize my privilege” over and over, while living his lifestyle, doesn’t negate his privilege and complete lack of real-life experience outside of the curated garden of the wealthy. He gets paid obscene amounts of cash to sit in his bedroom and word-vomit for 9 hours a day. Why are his unending opinions taken so seriously? He gives me strong controlled opposition vibes.

He cute though

Hes good at breaking down media. Gets involved on community organizing. Does good propaganda.

People are free to like who they like and make up their own minds. Why you hating? Who made you thought police?

I guess his ubiquity annoys me when he strikes me as hypocritical.

I like that he’s focusing on the relationship between labor and the means of production and its not about being poor or rich per se.

Exactly why the infighting when we have bigger fish to fry.

Fair enough. Guess I’ll delete before the hive attacks in full.
Don’t delete. There is no hive. Let the opinions and discussion happen, read them all, see if anything sways you. If not that’s fine, if it does that’s fine too. You asked, hear the answers
Anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a sheep right?
Let’s not do that… Its good to talk as long as you’re also open to listening
No, lmfao. But it’s clear from the overall response that the assumption is that I must be some kind of rightwing troll, just because I’m sick of the guy. Leftist =/= Hasan fan.

I only see one person who questioned if you were trolling. And the response you’ve largely gotten are because people don’t agree with your point of view.

It’s good to have advocates in positions of privilege. If we were all to rely on someone like yourself to try and change hearts and minds, how quickly and widespread can you move that message and get people to understand the plight of workers? Not as quickly as someone with privilege and influence who can help with that.

I don’t know this guy or his politics, just examining this discussion and (as with the other responses you’ve gotten) not really sure where you’re coming from with this. You said yourself your co-workers listen to this guy ask day, you can see that kind of thing odd important right? (If it’s the right message he is pushing of course)

No… Its a good discussion… Maybe add an edit or a caveat… I do feel there are a few people out there who don’t like him for the reasons you stated. But end of the day bigger fish to fry. As long as we keep that in mind it’s all good to me.
I can give you my two cents. Currently, there aren’t many left leaning pundits, and I won’t look a gift horse in the mouth. His privilege means nothing if he’s actually being a good progressive advocate. Also, he’s actually talking about the things the left populace actually care about. Controlled opposition wouldn’t look like him to me. They’d be more like the Democrat party, trying to copitulate with the right. He’s been fairly consistent with his messaging of workers rights, lgbtq rights, womens rights, and the atrocities happening in Gaza. His income from streaming is incidental, and isn’t a problem in and of itself. In fact, it lets him be independent and not beholden to corporate media. It’s hard enough to afford bills working a regular job. The vast majority of regular jobs take all your time, leaving none for anything else, much less being a left leaning advocate online. I’m assuming you’d rather a full-time employee take his place, but how would someone like that be able to be effective in their advocacy?
Maybe I’m just an old fart annoyed by the loudmouthed sarcastic child of immense privilege preaching about things he’ll never understand. As long as he’s saying what the people want to hear, I guess. A new leftist Rush Limbaugh for 2024, great. I’m on the left and I’m just exhausted. IDK.
I get the sentiment. But I don’t need to be lgbtq to be an advocate for their rights. I just want people to be able to be who/what they want and thrive. Compared to them I’m privileged (white cishet male), but I doubt they’d complain about me being an ally.
Who is forcing you to be LGBTQ?
No one? Not sure where you got that from.

I just want people to be able to be who/what they want and thrive.

End the war on drugs cause I want to be high as hell.

I disagree that it’s impossible for someone coming from a place of privilege to understand working-class politics. Of course, people with privilege do have a tendency to create or buy into justifications for the system that upholds their position, but at the same time privilege grants people the freedom to do what those without cannot. It’s admirable for someone with that background to use their privilege for the good of all, potentially even to their own detriment.

It seems your distaste for Hasan is based on surface-level appearances and vibes, but those same traits that put you off of Hasan are very appealing to a large number of young men who are otherwise susceptible to right-wing cultural framing. I also used to avoid Hasan because he just didn’t seem like someone I would identify with, and I was put off by the react content that made me associate him with shameless react streamers who leech off other people’s work. After actually listening to him I realized he is very knowledgeable and is actually adding value to the content he reacts to. He used his privilege to study political science and become a political commentator, and he has genuine passion for his work and a commitment to progressive values.

Edit: If you’re looking for someone with a similar perspective but without the aesthetic baggage try The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Thanks for your response. Yes, it must be a personality thing, combined with a generational difference. Can you see how it comes across as disingenuous as a member of the working class to be spoken down to by a millionaire streamer? Similarly to how some LGBT allyship advocacy from cishet people comes across as blissfully unaware of the actual struggles of LGBT people.

i think that, that blissfully unaware allyship hurt the democrats in this election and most of the world’s most impactful &/or influential leftists started out life with a silver spoon in their mouths; according to frederick douglass’ shocked impression of john brown’s humble trappings.

it also jives with my own anecdotal experiences of being dragged out to leftists &/or artist gatherings and mainstream events like burning man where you can see various cliques of people form where many to most have the rich or famous at their cores; somehow leftists are great at attracting the rich and famous.

it’s so unusual that the people who have most level headed views of finances are the ones who have the most money and the few that broke that class solidarity to create a new one with the poor are called leftists, while the majority who maintained that solidarity are called capitalists; with an overwhelming majority in between deride the class traitors as foolish because they’re told to by the non-class traitors

i think that some of those rich people who become democrats (or hasan piker’s) because their stations in life afford them the freedom to do so like the cishet allies. that proximity to the struggle; is worse that being completely ignorant of that struggle in some ways because the tiny but crucial details that allies will never likely understand makes for big missed opportunities like there still being time to enact the equal rights amendment to protect us from the likes of project 2025.

Equal Rights Amendment - Wikipedia

I realized he is very knowledgeable

Citation needed.

Hasan has the same knowledge as an average poster on this website who doesn’t know the differences between Mao and Lenin or China and USSR. Half the posters on this site don’t even understand the disagreements between the movements they claim to like.

Hasan literally would tell you this is nerd shit. Hasan literally doesn’t know how to employ the basics of journalism. When pinned against the wall Hasan will admit that he’s entertainment.

Make your point by insulting the intelligence of the people you’re trying to make your point to

Very smart move

You seem to believe that I think I can convince others.

I think I cannot because the love and defense of Hasan doesn’t come from an objective place at all. I’m merely shitposting. There are people deifying him in this thread and all over the internet.

There’s no alternative to Hasan right now in the left online space. Look at the top streamers on election day. They’re all right-wing except for him. We’re going to have to start with people like him, AOC, or Bernie if we want to move the needle in this country. Organizing 20 people in your local communist book club doesn’t matter if your movement is constantly demonized in the media and never grows. I don’t think some in the left seem to understand how important propaganda is, and yes, even online. Even Lenin worked on newspapers.

Not saying he’s anything close to Lenin, but no one else is in the position to step up right now. It’s going to take someone with enough money to not have to rely on mainstream media companies to say the shit he does, and the aesthetic to reach the Gen Z people all the other guys are reaching. Other people can’t afford to be kicked out of the DNC for talking to Palestine protestors like he was.

Fun fact I watched Hasan’s election day stream so keep that in mind as you read my reply!

There’s no alternative to Hasan right now in the left online space.

The beginning of this argument reeks of “there is no alternative to capitalism”. We do not have to accept things simply because there is no “better” popular alternative. This is the argument that Democrats use to bully and denigrate voters.

Organizing 20 people in your local communist book club doesn’t matter if your movement is constantly demonized in the media and never grows. I don’t think some in the left seem to understand how important propaganda is, and yes, even online. Even Lenin worked on newspapers.

Firstly, Lenin and Hasan are worlds apart. Lenin’s propaganda was hard theory. Hasan is vague “I want things to be better”. Lenin never shied away from putting his chips down on the table in tough intra-left questions. Hasan doesn’t even address any tough intra-left questions, he’s not even at that level. Lenin literally lead the 1905 Revolution after being out of prison for 5 years. Hasan has been posting for more than 5 years and hasn’t really moved the political needle in this country appreciably.

Hasan is the Jon Stewart of anyone that’s left of “progressives”. The same non-ideological criticisms of Stewart apply directly to Hasan. Jon Stewart hasn’t done very much to move that needle either. Popular entertainment is important to have people be open to ideas, but it does not equal political activity. Hasan is actually worse than Jon Stewart in this regard because Hasan hasn’t even made his own brand of political rally unlike the lib Jon Stewart.

Organizing history in the US shows you don’t even need propaganda, you just need to meet people where their at and talk to them about what their problems are. “Winning Gen Z” is such a Democrat beltway insider tactic that’s consistently a loser. Charging those with the least experience in the world to change it is quite literally the best way to fail, it’s not a surprise that “youngism” has been the call of the Democratic party on the ground despite having a gerontocracy that controls the party. There is simply no real durable through line from Hasan to making socialism. He’s just a guy people watch.

. Other people can’t afford to be kicked out of the DNC for talking to Palestine protestors like he was.

There is no theory of change or path to power here. You have literally foreclosed that yourself by pointing this out. Hasan is an entertainer, and he softens views but it literally does not translate into power because in our system the left is structurally disenfranchised.

For reference, I don’t watch him much at all so you probably know the specifics of his flaws better than me. However, I know people who have who weren’t leftist before, and I appreciate that he’s brought them into the tent and that he says things that they haven’t heard other people say before. We still have tons of room for other people more left of him or more knowledgeable of theory than he is, but he’s still a great intro to the leftist pipeline, or maybe a mid-point after like Jon Stewart or Jon Oliver, and I won’t begrudge him that role. It’s someone else’s job to step up and be that next step. I won’t blame Hasan that someone isn’t more popular and more knowledgeable on theory. Maybe it’s not his specialty, and that’s fine.

Like for me, I started going left with Bernie, and now consider myself more left than him, but I still appreciate the role Sanders had in my life. Now, he’s never going to say any theory and he’s always going to shepherd people back into the capitalist system of the Democratic party. But, I won’t hate him because he didn’t travel left with me, I just shrug and say he did his job, and I appreciate his contributions. In other words, I don’t think the world is better without his existing. Or taking the example of Lenin, he popped up during a sizable, albeit partly exiled, socialist movement in Russia, but still, he built on their work, their philosophies, their organizing, their clubs, with their students, their newspapers, etc. He surpassed many of them in terms of turning theory into action, argued with some vehemently, but it’s not like they didn’t contribute to the movement in the long run.

Hasan doesn’t need to make that last step to power imo. He’s doing his job where he is, helping ease some people out of the red scare mentality of the most propagandized nation on earth. Let’s be honest, even if he couldn’t lead some movement after making 60% of the country believe in socialism, it would be a lot easier for someone else to do so with that support. And that starts with entertainment and culture. Was it Gramsci who had the theory on the structure and super structure that effect each other? I think that’s definitely true. There’s a reason the US is willing to give movies free money for propaganda or let them use their vehicles. It enforces the cultural hegemony that will have to be broken, or at least chipped away.

People feel something is wrong, sure, but that can lead them to fascism as much as Marxism. And they’re not going to read those books you mentioned because people are terrified to read those books or hear those ideas in the US, yet entertainment provides an acceptable way to be exposed to those ideas. People are identifying the wrong solutions or sources of those problems all the time, that’s why Trump was elected.

I don’t think all the push back is all parasocial, i just think some is that you’re under valuing the power of culture and entertainment. The right has a pipeline that’s working pretty damn well to slowly convert people from neocons to fascism, and it often starts with talking about their entertainment or being in the guise of entertainment itself (like with comedians, like Rogan, Crowder, etc). There’s no reason the left can’t have a similar path made up of multiple creators and media personalities, each on a step along the path. I think some are just critical of Hasan because he’s the only one right now and no one else is picking up the slack, but I don’t think that’s his fault.

I think if “Hasan exposed you to leftist ideas” that’s great an all. Your argument has the following lynch pin:

The right has a pipeline that’s working pretty damn well to slowly convert people from neocons to fascism, and it often starts with talking about their entertainment or being in the guise of entertainment itself (like with comedians, like Rogan, Crowder, etc).

This has a couple of parts:

  • People need to “hear this stuff”, which fine I agree with.
  • “hearing stuff” on the left translates to the same outcomes that “hearing stuff” on the right does. This is where you lose me.
  • The Right has it easy. It’s why they can be boring, lazy, stupid and evil. They have it easy because not only are they the status-quo, but their arguments have big salacious things they can point to. Capitalism exists, the US Empire exists, and people’s suffering exist. The right doesn’t actually need people to continue it’s project in the same way the left needs people. The Right can sustain itself on morons running into walls until the whole system collapses under its own weight. There is a pinprick of sunlight between your average neocon and your average fascist. Hell there’s only a 4ft window of sunlight between a liberal and a fascist. Fascism is easy because it’s the logical ends of an already existing system.

    The Left needs people to build an alternative, something that doesn’t exist, something that works for everyone, something intelligent and intelligible. The only way to do this is to be armed with the knowledge of the past, cognizant enough to understand the landscape of the present, have enough foresight to visualize the future, planing capacity to deal with the logistics, and the resources to put it into motion.

    “Roganism” will never deliver these things. In fact “Roganism” will simply get you a bunch of consumers. The only way that “Roganism” will prevail for the left is if we are already at war and we simply need bodies to take orders and to pull triggers.

    Now Hasan isn’t really responsible for any of this, he’s an entertainer. He’s a good entertainer, he has okay politics. But that’s it, there’s no there there beyond that.

  • Hasan streams 2. Somebody thinks yeah medicare for all 3. ??? 4. ??? 5. ??? 6. politically viable leftism in the US
  • It’s the same argument:

  • Everyone has a brat summer
  • Oprah fumbles Kamala thru a question
  • Beyonce performs
  • ???
  • ???
  • ???
  • Democrats win.
  • Actually laughed out loud at this, well done. You’re an excellent writer. This encapsulates the 24 election so perfectly 😭

    I agree. Whether I agree with them or not, they really have a way with words. The imagery of the right running their mindless subjects into a wall put a smile on my face lol.

    Well, I’ve heard that he at least encourages people to go on beyond him and read things or organize IRL, so I think that’s already a marked differentiator from the Democrats, who just encourage you to vote for them, and they’ll have all the answers. I see people like him as like the state under communism. Useful up to a point, and then they can do something else. Until that time, critical support to leftist streamers and class traitors lol.

    But, since my only personal experience is with people who have come from Hasan and I haven’t really listened to him much myself, it makes it hard to agree nor argue, so I’ll leave it there.

    But I will say, your writing is a pleasure to read 😂

    Is this a “no true Scotsman” thing where only poor people with a blue collar work history are worthy of being listened to?
    No. It’s a “tired of the dropping standards” thing where I’m dissatisfied with the fact that the biggest voice of our political movement is a loud condescending nepo baby who sits in his bedroom playing video games, watching youtube, and reading Reddit posts for a living, and can’t realistically claim to have any idea about the lives of the oppressed classes he claims to champion.
    I guess you want political and social “activists” to have a pathetic life and can’t have fun and do fun activities like playing games. What make you think that he doesn’t read interesting book etc to educate himself about certain issues? Your use of personal attacks remove all your credibility.
    TBH, I don’t know much about him and read the first few paragraphs of his Wikipedia page. It says while born in New Jersey, he grew up in Turkey under Erdogan, then back to the US to study poli sci. Seems like growing up under a democracy sliding back into authoritarianism would be relevant experience. Your description of him as a “nepo baby” seems quite incomplete, bordering on a lie by omission.

    His uncle is the owner and founder of TYT Media, and he got his start in media at… TYT. He comes from an immensely wealthy and politically connected family. He has chosen to live in Hollywood, an epicenter of capitalism at its worst.

    And thanks for your edit, I think I agree that my perception of him is charged by emotion, but in addition to fact.

    I suggest maybe watching the stream, then
    I’m basically forced to, daily, thanks for your suggestion tho
    Is Hasan Piker really the biggest voice on the political left?
    Depends on what you define left, but if it’s left of the DNC and corporate media than he’s one of the biggest no doubt about it.
    Maybe I’m the one that’s out of the loop, but I’d consider myself fairly informed and on the left, and I only think I’ve heard him speak once or twice. I don’t watch any streams though, so it could just be that I’m not part of that community
    Hasan’s follower gain for November - December alone is roughly the size of the entire Lemmy fediverse MAU, ~60k.
    Yep, sounds like I’m the odd one out then. Although Lemmy is far from my only source of news and information

    How about a loud condescending poor who sits in their bedroom playing video games, watching YouTube, reading reddit posts for a living but is super right wing?

    Not like there’s a litany of journalists, professors and former finance ministers with their work available online to watch or anything

    There plenty of them, both in the U.K. and USA.

    The ones that spout right wing shit purely for division do my head in the most.

    Holy shit what a lib response
    Embrace petty bourgeouis class traitors and don’t fetishize the working class.

    I understand where you’re coming from, honestly. But I think this is a sort of trauma response on our end (myself included) at this point. I’m not trying to pin mental illnesses on you, I’m nowhere near a licensed head doctor of any kind, I’m saying that we’ve been kicked and abused so much by the rich, that it’s only natural for those of us who broke free of the brainwashing to be on high alert, at least for a while. The continued unfolding of things surely can’t help this situation, either.

    That being said, as long as he acts in good faith and is sincere and logical in his approach, which so far seems to be true, I’d say we should embrace his participation! As I see it, we need all the voices we can get. We’re already arguing semantics amongst ourselves all day long, I think it’d be a shame to let mistrust shatter “our side” without concrete proof of malicious intent.

    At the end of the day, the greatest weapon the Right has is the fact that they yell united at everyone else. Let our chorus rival theirs!

    Thank you for being one of the only commenters to understand my question.
    Believe me, I’m keeping an eye on every piece of Leftist media I find, and not just for the purpose of learning. I know Capitalism is very good at repackaging our complaints and critiques and selling them back as dopamine hits, but… there’s not much of a choice otherwise. Even the “underground networks” are owned by someone at this point…

    This is very dismissive of the other commenters you’ve responded to who also appear to have understood you quite well. The difference is just that you like this one better.

    You rail against someone for their privileges, but can’t seem to see past your own biases. We all have biases. It’s important to be able to recognize them and try to see past them. Including against privileged allies.

    “One of” the only ones, not “the” only one. The difference is exactly what I stated, the respondant clearly understood my question. Would you like me to edit each of my other replies, to acknowledge the ones who also understood my question, for consistency’s sake? I should probably then reply to each of the ones who didn’t understand my question, to make sure and point it out, right? Otherwise I’m being very dismissive?

    I’ve been learning from this discussion, so I’m not sure why you think I’m incapable of seeing my biases.

    Here’s a question: Is it cool to hoard wealth if you’re saying leftist-sounding stuff while you do it?

    In case you’re actually, seriously asking and not just trolling, having privilege and success under capitalism does not disqualify a person from being a leftist. You can’t really criticize a person for participating in a system where if you don’t participate, you starve.

    He’s using his influence to organize the working class and advocate for collective action, which is the one tool workers have in the fight against their own exploitation. Even if you don’t like him personally or don’t think he’s part of the working class, he is a very strong ally and has undeniably strengthened the movement.

    Shame that seriously asking is so hard to distinguish from trolling at this point. For the record, I am a leftist, working a shitty physical job, who has to listen to this guy all day because of my coworkers. I am literally the archetype of the struggling worker class. I don’t need him or any other millionaire to tell me about the working class.
    But there are working class people who like his message (the people you work w/). So clearly, he is saying something of interest. I disagree w/ him on a handful of issues, but don’t think that disqualifies him from being helpful in the fight for equality. The same goes for the likes of JB Pritzker for example. That doesn’t mean they’re my ideal candidates but any port in a storm. Turning away useful allies while we wait for a perfect representation seems like a way to alienate some people because they “aren’t like us” when it comes to their financial situation even if they agree on social and fiscal ideas.

    Shame that seriously asking is so hard to distinguish from trolling at this point.

    Common-L among left-ish Lemmy instances when you start noticing the paint chipping off of their golden idols.

    He’s using his influence to organize the working class and advocate for collective action, which is the one tool workers have in the fight against their own exploitation.

    Posting and streaming (which is just video posting) is not “organizing the working class and advocating for collective action”. The closest he gets to this is fundraisers, but the buck pretty much stops there.

    Money is important sure, but that’s not what organizing is. If fundraising is organizing than the Democratic Party should be Bolsheviks.

    I don’t know Piker from a hole in the ground. This sure sounds like a red flag, and I think The Young Turks are hacks. Nonetheless, bourgeois class traitors are a thing, Engels & Mao being a prime examples.

    Not knowing Piker’s particulars, I can only speak at the 30,000 foot view: Western “leftist” spaces have largely been captured by US imperialism since the end of WWII.

    Gabriel Rockhill - Wikipedia

    Thank you for an intelligent response! I will read up on the links you shared.
    You will struggle to get serious answers here. But many leftists crave validation more than they crave good ideas.