fossilesqueMen who conform to traditional gender roles are at a higher risk of suicide
solsangraalit’s stressful, spending a lifetime pretending to not be as sensitive as a de-scrotum’d testicle
sunzu2Or they take their role as provider more seriously and when they fail, they do what they see as only way out...
But sure... It is about being "sensentive" 🤡
is suicide really the right topic to unfold politics?
otterGot anything worthwhile to offer, or are you just in line to touch the coffin lid and say the words in the hope that you feel something?
sorry, i was just too irritated by sunzu2’s comment, and - reading their other comments now - their general attitude on male mental health.
and no, i don’t have to hold a lid or say the words to feel the pain, thanks ;)
My apologies, neighbor. I hope you find the joy in life you seek, genuinely. 🙇🏽♂️
You’re part of the problem.
Please reconsider this. The sensitivity that OP is talking about is like the hunger that a starving person feels. Men who haven't ever been allowed to deal with their feelings will be more sensitive as their bodies scream at them to acknowledge years resentment, burden, anger, anxiety, and fear. A man committing suicide to get away from emotional deprivation is like a starving person committing suicide even though they could have access to food. Men don't have to be providers for others, and it they choose to, they don't have to suffer silently and thanklessly under a yolk as the world whips them. You can take care of someone while also getting your emotional needs met.
Men who haven't ever been allowed to deal with their feelings
The only people not allowing this are themselves... i am sorry these bootlickers can't grow a backbone and act in their own self interest.
Blaming "toxic" masculinity because losers can't think for themselves is is toxic muscularity in of itself.
Serving some rich dude's need is not masculine, ie "I work hard to provide but I never see my kids is not a flex btw." it is not masculine.
I don't know how we got to the point where bootlicking became toxic masculinity. Any man with self respect treats other men telling them what to do as a threat actor lol
So, how long has it been since you’ve had a hug that meant something?
Yoke*
But, thank you for taking the time to text this all to a perfect stranger. 💜
Uh… You have access to support, friend? 🥹
luciole (they/them)Maybe I’m just slow, but I don’t get the gist of your remark. You taking a jab at men denying their sensitivity or at men being too sensitive? The two things are sometimes two sides of the same coin I guess.
GammaI think they’re saying they have to hide sensitivity with some colorful imagery to describe being very sensitive
I read it a nur punch to thise who deny any sensitivity, as they are more sensitive thatba wind vane.
Never seen neither of them cry, so 🤷🏼♂️
So who did you see crying?
🤦🏽♂️
Weather vanes do cry when they haven’t been oiled.
Same as toxic males, I hear. Always grease your good boy.
men denying their sensitivity
mostly this, but
men being too sensitive?
for too many men apparently any amount of sensitivity is too much
but from my experience, it’s the guys who are most obsessed with how their manliness is perceived by the rest of the world who are the most sensitive at all. and they’re also the most miserable
RobotToasterSo your response to an article about how men don’t talk about their feelings is “Ha Ha men are just sensitive snowflakes”?
I wonder why men don’t talk about their feelings more 🤔🤔
do you always just make up completely different meanings for the things you read? or only when it’s something about men being sensitive and trying to pretend not to be?
What did they make up?
he tried to change my point from “it’s stressful to try and act all invincible tough guy all the time” into some juvenile disparaging insult about all men being ‘snowflakes’
it’s a common thing for people to get offended by a comment and then try to attack some point that was never stated in the comment. so common that even saying “strawman” anymore is almost a cliche
as a man, i can tell you it is possible to re-examine those things that cause you to get upset–and when you take the time to do it, you’ll realize that 99% of the things men get butthurt about a) don’t matter in the slightest; and b) aren’t going to be changed by anyone’s huffing and puffing about it, but will more likely just get worse
I was hoping they would reply, it was so irrationally upset that I was expecting some attempt to save face
Also based
Oh dear, you’ve definitely misread this comment friend.
Hey, I think some nuance was lost over the imperfect medium of text. Here's what OP is getting at—when someone ignores their emotions, they don't just go away. Emotions are just signals from the body about what is good for it and what is bad for it. Emotions are the body telling someone what it needs. If emotions are ignored, then the body isn't getting what it needs, so it sends stronger signals. When I don't eat, I get hungrier (until I start starving and my body begins eating itself, anyways). When I don't tend to an injury, it hurts more. When I'm resentful and I don't do anything about my feelings of resentment, those feelings grow in strength and force.
Any person who has been told by society that they should disregard their emotions will have a body which is screaming its discontent at them. I'm a man and I was raised to hide and repress my feelings (although I was never really into extreme toxic masculinity). It was fucking agonizing, and I became so, so sensitive to things. It took years of therapy for me to learn that the body keeps the score and that I had to feel and express my feelings, just like I had to eat or bandage a cut.
Anyone who has suffered from emotional self-neglect will be sensitive. Western society pushes men to neglect themselves, so those men will be sensitive. That's all OP meant. Men who accept their emotions for what they are and tend to them will be much less sensitive and will almost certainly be happier people.
Honestly, it’s the
as a de-scrotum’d testicle
part that throws me.
Yeah, it's not (in my opinion) the best way to get the idea across. I read that and immediately thought of how it felt when I was emotionally repressed. To me, a de-scrotumed testicle sounds about right, because even the softest and most gentle care was still rough and painful. I can see how someone could read something much less kind in that phrase, however.
I had to re-read your original comment to fully get your point, but I hear what you’re saying now.
(Or maybe I just need an excuse to dip out of this thread and try to bleach the image of a de-scrotum’d testicle from my brain)
What. You never peeled a grape before?
ScubusMost humans are sensitive. It comes from being a social creature
You ok, boo?
My dude, you need to re-read what OP said and rethink your comprehension of the text.
FizzTo clarify a bit, the group is a subset of young men and they arent pretending. Its a matter of how different groups express the symptoms of their disorder. Because a man does not express his depression in a typical way does not mean he is pretending not to be depressed. The article even mentions a retrospective study that looked 3000 men who killed themselves and 60% of those men went to therapy but the issue is that this group presents atypical, externalizing depressive symptoms which can lead to them not being recognized by conventional diagnostic instruments". Therapy is not a one size fits all remedy and its common that a tailored approach is required and instruments be updated.
We dont blame or diminish mentally ill people for being mentally ill. Its that simple.
I’d be interested to see what the rates of suicidal ideation are compared between men who do and don’t conform to traditional gender roles. Because there are a lot of contributing factors I can think of off the top of my head, like men who don’t conform as strictly to traditional gender norms are probably more likely to go see a therapist, so they are more likely to see a way out of their situation that doesn’t involve suicide. Also, men who more strictly conform to traditional gender norms probably are more likely to have guns in the home, and (as other studies have shown) men tend to prefer suicide by gun over pills/meds/other methods, so I’m curious if that has an impact as well.
It does, yes
Is Lethality Different between Males and Females? Clinical and Gender Differences in Inpatient Suicide Attempters
According to the gender paradox in suicidology, an important sex difference has been reported with a preponderance of females in nonfatal suicidal behavior and a preponderance of males in completed suicide. Furthermore, females and males present ...
Okay good, thank you. I couldn’t find any info in the originally linked article.
Anecdotally I am both of those. I grew up in a deep south military family, and I used to have a sidearm that I assigned way more of my identity to than I should have and thought about using on myself more than i ever thought about using in any other way. I didn’t try therapy for the first time until my 30s, after I quit working for the airforce. Telling a man he needed therapy where I used to work was an insult no matter the context, and it was an open secret that you’d get fired if you sought any kind of mental healthcare. (not directly, but some security manager somewhere in the system would revoke your clearances and it would domino from there)
I’m still amazed I made it through that; it feels like almost every week I’m still blown away by how much different the world can be when it isn’t just a deluge of bigotry and hatred and doomsday weapons. If you can help it, don’t ever fucking make weapons. No matter how much they offer to pay you or pretend you’re a hero. It’s not worth your will to live
culpritus [any]A long-term study in the US involving around 10,000 young men has already shown that they are more likely to commit suicide over a period of 20 years if they identify strongly with traditional masculine roles. These norms are characterized by ideas that originated from the previously strongly patriarchal social framework. They prescribe the characteristics that men should have and how they should behave. These include, for example, independence, controlling their emotions and not showing their vulnerability. In science, this is summarized under the term traditional masculine ideologies.
Toxic Masculinity is very real.
The Woke is trying to prevent REAL men from exercising their right to unalive themselves!
TheDoctor [they/them]An evergreen bell hooks quote:
The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.
For any men near the beginning of their journey to adopt of a more healthy masculinity, The Will To Change by bell hooks is an excellent read
MiraculousMM [he/him, undecided]If anyone’s interested in reading through it with others, we have a book club going for this book right now! It’s a fantastic read so far and we just started!
Yeah, but …hexbear? Ferreal? 🫣
imogen_underscore [it/its, she/her]I understand the hesitancy. Hexbear’s not for everyone. If you were only going to interact with a single corner of Hexbear and ignore the rest, this book club would be a good place to do so. It’ll be low on snark and full of people doing earnest discussion.
Man, it’s like the worst kind of beetlejuicing: we didn’t even use the actual name more than a couple times and there’s already chuds gagging on each other to win the race. 🙄🤢
I’m not sure what you mean
smartest liberal
Death to America
I think that’s a counterproductive response.
Everyone involved in the book club is taking it seriously and we’ve had great discussions so far without any irony poisoning. You don’t need to be a commie or an anarchist to get a lot out of the experience, we just want more people who will earnestly engage with the work.
I might, in all honesty, and thank you. I’ll have to go find how thoroughly I’ve blocked that instance (TIL: my filters are not fully synced between devices), but I appreciate knowing this is out there, at the least.
frauddogg [null/void, undecided]At first, I had to question why I was seeing a question like this, then I remembered where I was. But if I start talking trash about dbzer0 like this here, my shit’s finna get pinched.
1.) Yeah, but it’s hexbear.
2.) Use gloves.
Gsus4The film nights are pretty good too.
Jesus, that cuts. 🥹😶
patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.
This isn’t exclusive to men, women do this too. Even many that say they want a “sensitive” guy don’t actually in my experience, they want a guy that can be empathetic to others (namely them) but still have no feelings of his own, just try to cry in front of one (especially for anything less than a death of someone close, or as I’ve been told before “yeah we don’t like it when guys cry for stupid reasons but if there’s something like your mom died sure. I want a sensitive guy not a pussy.”)
Call it the patriarchy all you want, but women certainly reinforce it too, IME even some that espouse hatred for it turn around and reinforce it in the same breath.
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals…
They spend their entire life worrying about what everyone, from their family to complete strangers, will allow or not allow them to do. Can’t imagine the stress. So glad my parents raised me to just be myself, do what I want, and tell anyone who complains to fuck off.