return2ozmaFellow Americans, which family member are you not looking forward to seeing for Thanksgiving that you know will bring up politics?
watsonI’m staying home this year for this exact reason.
NotNotMikeSimilar boat. We aren’t even seeing my wife’s family because her mom is getting back together with her MAGA ex-husband and my wife just doesn’t want to be a part of that
empireOfLove2Probably my girlfriend’s mother. Her family lives in a remote part of Y’allistan kinda country. According to my gf they used to be quite moderate and intelligent but since moving (for better land to run their family business) her mom has become very isolated and feeds off nothing but Fox/OANN and whatever shit YouTube recommends. She’s become such an abortion hating, trans hating, gay hating person in only the last three or four years that even my girlfriend says she barely recognizes her sometimes.
This is my first Thanksgiving with her family after 2 years together, and depending on how it goes it might be close to the last, we’re not sure.
1984The best way to handle it is to laugh about it. She makes some remark about trans or gays, just laugh or smile as if it was a joke or as if she is drunk and stupid. :)
It feels much better for the soul. Don’t fight her. She will have those opinions either way.
Each person has their own development journey. You don’t blame a kid for throwing up on the floor. Just relax and accept whatever happens.
If you do this, you will grow as a person and realize there is another way to handle conflict that feels quite good. :)
Another way to handle it is the stoic stare. You just look at her quietly when she says things without saying anything. Just keep eye contact for an uncomfortable amount of time to make a point, making the others around the table notice the bad vibes and get uncomfortable. Personally I think this is harder to pull off in a setting with many people, so I prefer the first one.
dustyDataExcept, she is not a child. She is a grown person who votes and supports opinions that will get vulnerable people killed. This are both very childish ways of handling conflict.
stares blankly at you for an uncomfortable long time without speaking
If you haven’t already seen it, watch The Brainwashing of My Dad. It is a short documentary about this kind of experience that’s worth the quick watch
Oog - my little brother.
He’s a walking stereotype of a tech libertarian (which is to say, a shallow, bigoted, reactionary, right-wing IT guy who for some inexplicablec reason seems to think that all that’s necessary to count as “libertarian” is to rail against “the woke mob.”)
The first time I heard the term “mansplaining,” I knew exactly what it meant, because it’s his customary mode of communication. I already know that by about the third time I hear him say, " Well, what you have to understand is that…" I’m going to have to leave the room.
He likely won’t bring up politics directly - not surprisingly, he’s generally ignorant of both the philosophical side of it and the practical side of it. Instead, he’ll bloviate about whatever the right-wing/tech media bubble is bloviating about, so essentially political issues without the complication of political context.
It’s invariably awful, and it’s always a matter not of if but merely of when I’m going to have to leave the room because the only alternative is going to be a messy verbal explosion. And I presume it’s going to be worse than ever this year, since he’ll undoubtedly want to mansplain the mindless dogma he’s been fed about Trump and Musk and Ukraine and tariffs and immigrants and trans athletes and so on…
It’s my house. Everyone in the family knows I’ll shut that shit down, so I look forward to seeing everyone 😁
Fortunately, my family all died off in the pandemic. We were all liberal, and they'd be horrified by the state of things. I'm grateful they don't have to experience any of this.
My mom would be devastated to see that they let the orange fucker do it again.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I love talking about politics. Oh wait, I think I’m that family member.
QuarterSwedeNone. We have made politics a taboo subject at dinner. We know we don’t agree (older generations vs younger) and would rather converse about things we enjoy like the grandkids etc.
I have thanksgiving with only my wife and kids.
Then I have Friendsgiving, with a few friends and their family.
I haven’t seen my family in years except for video calls. Same for my kids, and wife and kids. Not that I dislike them. Or would be opposed to them staying in the same town.
My family members are toxic, and after I moved, we never bothered.
I think more people should do that.
We’re going out of town so our DIL doesn’t have to make up an excuse for not spending it with her fam.
nocturneNone, I am intentionally not seeing my family for Thanksgiving.
Thankfully not thanksgiving, but Christmas it will be my father… That whole side of the family really. Even my super religious grandmother chimes in with “the immigrants bring in disease!”
For a group of people that can love their family, they’re all filled with so much hate for “others.” :/
JusticeForPorygonAin’t no love like Christian love
SnausagesinaBlanketThis is the 3rd year I will be completely alone.
You can come to my house if you want
We’re having lasagna
If you are driving distance I am there.
You forgot to tell me the address.
You’re never all alone. We’re here you you
Still alone…
I also choose this guys Jim
FlaxHere’s my poor man’s gold 🏅
Thank you kind stranger
My parents called tonight and asked if they could come on Thursday, I am NOT looking forward to seeing my hyper-christian Maga supporting white-Nationalist parents, and neither are my very sensible, LQTBQ+ supporting children and their partners, and spouses. Tomorrow, I have to call and tell them that any nonsense, or statements like the ones that were made at the last event we were at will be met by asking them to leave. Yay.
What did they say last time, spill the tea!
What are the chances that they will actually be respectful do you think. Might there be a case for simply not inviting them?
WIZARD POPE💫I think it’s kind of like a last chance situation. One last chance to be civil and behave. If they mess up they are never invoted again. But I might be wrong.
Report back soldier when its over!
Report back soldier when its over!
elbuchoI have no problem discussing politics, but under no circumstances will I ever willingly break bread with someone who voted for Trump. You want to talk about education reform? Economic policy? Foreign policy? No problem. But if you were dumb or hateful enough to vote for that shitstain, you’re dead to me.
What about Harris voters, who also support genocide?
I totally get not wanting to break bread with Nazis. But to sit with Harris supporters and not Trumpers projects more concern with vibes than actual policies and outcomes.
This sort of bad-faith whataboutism is exactly what the Republicans and the oligarchs want: keep everyone left of Dick Cheney infighting so they never win again. And it’s working super well, especially here on Lemmy.
I’m actually arguing against infighting in this instance. I personally believe both Trump and Harris voters should be ashamed of what they’ve supported.
But I don’t see why they shouldn’t get along with each other. Seems they have a lot of common ground. Their policies are so similar, the Harris campaign had a lot of trouble differentiating her platform, and had to resort to weak attacks like ‘Trump is WEIRD!’
Both camps support mass deportations, increased fossil fuel extraction, support for genocide in Israel, escalating tensions with China & Russia, increased police budgets, etc. Both full-throated support for a flavor of capitalist fascism. They certainly have more in common with each other than anyone on the left. And they both support the rapists & genocidal criminals in their party of preference. Doesn’t seem the Trumpers nor Harris supporters are in any position to be acting too smug to associate with the other.
I’m actually arguing against infighting in this instance.
proceeds to continue infighting
Mmm-hmm.
No, I get what you’re saying, but your false equivalency just isn’t working because you’re conveniently ignoring the absolutely dire parts of Trump’s policies.
“No, the sandwiches are the same!”
“…one of them is sauerkraut and toadstool with arsenic sauce, and the other is bologna and ketchup…?”
“But they both have BREAD!”
Look, I’m not interested in re-litigating this. You got what you wanted, Harris lost. Trump is predictably doing awful things because Harris lost. This is the world you chose. Now what?
Can you please point out the significant policy differences to me? I don’t see them. Neither did much of the electorate.
Look, I’m not interested in re-litigating this. You got what you wanted, Harris lost. Trump is predictably doing awful things because Harris lost. This is the world you chose. Now what?
There’s so many differences!! I just can’t name one.
Look, I’m not interested in re-litigating this. You got what you wanted, Harris lost. Trump is predictably doing awful things because Harris lost. This is the world you chose. Now what?
Your “whataboutism” would mean a whole lot more if Trump wasn’t even more into genocide than Harris and Biden. So your entire “vibes” retort is complete bullshit, and if you don’t know it, then you aren’t paying attention. If you do know it, then you’re lying to yourself and everybody around you.
LoL. It’s wild that you wrote this thinking you were making a good point. You really think you’re not also fascists, while arguing there’s acceptable degrees of genocide support?
It never amazes me how many people think that “genocide” is a black and white, binary thing. Genocide is committed by people, and those people, in this case, are doing it at the behest of their government. That government is almost wholly dependent on the approval and support of the United States.
Up until now, Israel has committed an incredible number of atrocities against the Palestinian people, and against people who are there to help them (aid workers, UN employees, etc.) They have been rebuked for many of these, albeit in a very ineffectual way, by the Biden government. Even though Biden (and Harris by extension) support Israel’s aggression towards the Palestinians, they are queasy about any Israeli action that is too blatantly genocidal. This, of course, has not stopped Israel from genociding, but it has slowed them down to a certain degree.
Trump has no such compunctions against genocide. He is, in fact, a full-blown cheerleader for it. The person he appointed to be the ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, had this to say:
There’s really no such thing as a Palestinian… that’s been a political tool to try and force land away from Israel. There’s no such thing as a settlement. They’re communities, they’re neighborhoods, they’re cities. There’s no such thing as an occupation.
As riled up as you are about Biden’s Israeli policy, I challenge you to find any statement by anybody in the Biden administration that is anywhere near that level of pro-genocide.
If you’re rolling your eyes at the comparison between genocide supporters, I want to remind you of something: there are still millions of Palestinian people who are alive right now, today. Under either US government, those people are facing potential extermination at Israel’s hands. The difference is that one government wants Israel to slow down, and the other government wants them to speed up. Trump being president means that more Palestinian people will die, end of story. Additionally, there is zero chance that any form of government asylum will be granted to Palestinians fleeing Israeli violence under a Trump government.
So, no. There is no acceptable degree of genocide, and that’s not what I was arguing. But there are degees of genocide, and voting for someone who wants to turbocharge it is materially worse than voting for someone who wants to slow it down.
You seem to be confusing feelings about genocide with actual material outcomes. It really doesn’t matter if a president enthusiastically sends billions in arms, or feels “queasy” doing it. The same number of people die. And it’s illegal either way.
You people are psychotic.
The same number of people die.
The entire point of what I wrote in my last response to you is: “no. The same number of people don’t die. That’s a completely ridiculous supposition”. Trump being president means that more people will die. As I said in my last response (that you either failed to read, or failed to understand), it is not a binary thing. It’s not as if a genocide, once started, must be seen through to completion.
And if you think Biden felt bad about arming the genocide, you are not at all familiar with his record.
I would wager any amount of money that I am far more familiar with his record than you are. Biden isn’t preventing the genocide because he values the existence of the Israeli state more than he values the lives of the Palestinians, but that doesn’t make him immune to worrying about America’s image internationally, and that doesn’t make him completely numb to the atrocities. The same cannot be said about Trump, hence the entire dialog up to this point.
So now we’re down to you just blatantly making shit up based on the vibes.
I would very much like you to point out what I made up.
What are you basing your ‘more will die under Trump’ claim on?
Why would anyone think Biden isn’t numb to atrocities? He has supported atrocities his entire career. Even White House counsel advised him he was breaking the law by continuing to arm the genocide. Hard to claim he did so reluctantly, after he’s spent years calling for leveling Gaza.
What are you basing your ‘more will die under Trump’ claim on?
History? Simple observation? Common sense? Take your pick.
Let’s start with history; let’s take the most famous example of genocide in the 20th century - the holocaust. It was a horrific example of the marriage of brutal efficiency with abject dehumanization, and it cost more than 10 million people their lives, roughly 6 million of whom were Jewish, and who were the primary targets of it.
The Nazis, though they were brutal, thorough, and efficient killers, did not kill all of the Jews. The fact that people survived that most abysmal display of human cruelty is proof enough that once a genocide is started, it’s not automatically seen through to the end. In the case of the holocaust, it was eventually stopped when the allies beat Germany back from most of Europe. If the Nazis were less gung-ho about killing people, far fewer Jews, Romani, homosexuals, invalids, and other people they considered undesirable would have been murdered.
The rate at which a genocide occurs matters.
Why would anyone think Biden isn’t numb to atrocities?
The things he’s said? The actions he’s taken? The fact that there’s no real indication that he’s a psychopath? Again, take your pick. Let’s give you an example of something he’s done. In February of this year, the Biden administration released a memorandum that required the state department and the department of defense to ensure that countries that are the target of military aid (read Isreal) are providing assurances that they are adhering to international human rights laws. In October, they sent a letter demanding that they improve the humanitarian situation in Gaza, including asking for “urgent and sustained actions by [their] government this month to reverse this trajectory.”
Obviously, they have not stopped, and obviously, we have not stopped providing military aid. But I never said that we were. I said that he was reluctant, and this demonstrates that reluctance.
So, both of those things are answered. What else have I “made up”?
HatchetHaroMost Harris voters are just anti-Trump voters.
They could have voted for someone who doesn’t support the Gazan genocide, but the moment they do, surprise surprise first-past-the-post two-party system strikes again, and their third party vote is counted in favour of Trump.
Good job third-party voters, you’ve successfully wasted a vote that could have been used strategically for the lesser of the two evils, so now you get the greater evil.
You’re thinking of ranked-choice voting. No third party votes were passed to Trump nor Harris.
Your comment really highlights the shit state of political discourse and general culture in this country.
Discussing actual policies comes across like a leftist circle jerk because the people have decided that “fuck everything and everybody” is a valid political platform.
Not ‘fuck everything and everybody’. Just fuck everybody who decided that they wanted to vote for a man who is a serial rapist, a traitor, a convicted felon, a misogynist, a pedophile, an imbecile, and a con man. There are tens of millions of people who decided to vote for him, and I say fuck literally every single one of those people. Awful human beings, the lot of them.
I meant that “fuck everything” is the platform of the dozens of people who voted for the rapist traitorous con man to dismantle the functional parts of our government.
Like the wind...All of them. They are literally neonazis but with black and white switched. They would say “black lives matter” while beating up a black Jewish person. I hate my family.
SabataGot to hang out with the hard-r racist uncle, my ‘pretends she a smart bible reader that hasn’t fallen for 4 different(in name) pyramid scams’ military sister, and my mentally disabled but violently aggressive brother that may have figured out that the cops will go easy on him every time.
These people wonder why I dread family gatherings and can’t function socially.
braddBe yourself, accept your family into your heart, and try to help them.
Show your racist uncle that whatever he dislikes about other races is also true for the supposed superior race, and that the things that make certain races seem inferior could be explained in other ways, like cultural issues (like racism).
Help your sister find passages in the Bible that speak to pyramid schemes, scams, gullibility, and remind her that her focus should not be on whatver these schemes are but on her Jesus and her salvation, and thank her for her service.
As much as you may hate dealing with people like this, I kinda think it’s the only way to help people. You have to build relationships with people that you dont agree with, search for good values in people and try to salvage them, pull them out of their tail spin.
My very imperfect father, whom I love and respect, has been a Trump supporter for a very long time and so any time a conversation can turn political, it does, and we all have to hear about the Democrat boogiemans and Trump the savior. As soon as it turns that way, even if I agree with his points or whatver, I just “oh shit here we go again” and what happens is, everyone in the room starts laughing because we all feel the same way. After a few of these I think he gets it, and I’ll talk with him about his ideas around Democrats and Trump, but in a curious way, and I’ll agree where we agree, and I’ll challenge him where I disagree. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree, I learn more about his perspective and we carry on.
Everyone on Earth is flawed and all we have is each other. I am so thankful for the people in my life that invested in me and I want to do the same for others.
Thank you for reading my TED talk.
I’m happy if the day ends with no violence or screaming where we pretend to be normal, and that’s not expected. It depends on if my brother is agitated that day and what shit that kicks off. I’m dipping the first elevated voice.