☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆Might as well be us
Jo Miran
TheLepidopterists [he/him]First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Tell me again how a Trump administration will save the Palestinians. I haven’t had a laugh in a bit.
It almost certainly won’t, but that doesn’t justify voting for a fascist who is exterminating children.
You’re oh so willing to let millions die to get your preferred politician in power, but I bet you’d be singing a different tune of the millions included you and yours.
…that doesn’t justify voting for a fascist who is exterminating children.
100% agree, which is why I am not voting for Trump, the actual fascist, and I am doing everything in my power to make sure he and his cronie do not win, INCLUDING not wasting my vote by abstaining or voting third party. This shit is too important to fuck about.
TomBombadil [he/him, she/her]Do you know who the president is right now while the US gleefully enables the murders tens of thousands of children?
agamemnonymousIdk, some old guy who’s not on the ballot. Do you know who’s calling Netanyahu every day to undermine the current administration’s ceasefire efforts?
يا ليتني كوري شمالي Ceasefire efforts? Is that what you call vetoing ceasefire at the UN twice?
TheOublietteThe “ceasefire” efforts are a bad faith smokescreen. If you follow the claimed contents of the “ceasefire” they are pushing, it is actually conditions of surrender. The purpose of their “ceasefire” propaganda was to coopt the “ceasefire now” rhetoric of those opposed to genocide. Just to inflate my ego a little, I fought very hard locally to avoid ceasefire rhetoric because I knew it was weak and easy to coopt. I, along with my orgs, successfully promoted that we demand an arms embargo instead, and that is the more durable demand being made by these groups (I probably only had a minor impact on this outside where I live).
Anyways, one clue for how the “ceasefire” line is bullshit is that Israel has assassinated the people they were allegedly negotiating with, to Biden-Harris applause.
the fascism is coming from inside the house my clown. u are going to vote for the sidekick and supporter of a self proclaimed zionist. She IS a fascist, she supports genocide.
Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]If you give your vote to Kamala Harris you are endorsing the genocide of the Palestinian people.
This is an undeniable fact and no amount of mental gymnastics on your part is going to change that.
Hmmm, you’re using an electronic device, which means you endorse the brutal child labor that contributed to manufacturing that device.
This is an undeniable fact and no amount of mental gymnastics on your part is going to change that.
Hey everyone! Ram here endorses forcing children to mine rare earth metals in third world countries! Shame them for their endorsement of exploitative labor practices
the fact that you thought you made a clever argument is equal parts sad and hilarious
The fact that you think your fascist enabling methodology jeopardizes what democracy we enjoy is mostly just sad.
You’re literally the one enabling fascists who are committing a genocide as we speak while bleating about some sort of a democracy.
DessalinesGenocide is no longer fascist in the liberal lexicon. Obama dropping bombs on the ME and north Africa, the Biden regime giving more money and aid to Israel than any year in its entire history, is now considered an “anti-fascist” option by liberals.
Most of the horrors assigned to fascists, as understood in the liberal canon, had precedents among liberal governments, often on much larger scales. Most genocides around the planet, and most people killed in genocide, were carried out by liberals in liberal democracy. They are the genocides of colonialism, including settler- colonialism, inckuding the genocide of indigenous Americans still in living memory. Nationalism is a liberal campaign, it emerges from capitalism and its primary ideology, and liberals celebrate it constantly. Scapegoating and creating marginalized groups has always been something liberals engaged in, though there has also always been a split between those they consider gauche and unacceptable (and they are the “good guys” for opposing) and those that they find acceptable (they are still the “good guys” for this), like their current siniphobia, russophobia, and islamophobia.
Point is, genocide is making a return in liberal discourse to being something they accept. They already did before and were very racist about it. They just took a break, at least in their PR, after they had their sole actual “good guy” war in WWII and needed to rhetorically distance themselves from Nazis and work around the popularity of the left in Europe after the defeat of the Nazis.
The genocide is being committed now and Trump isn’t president.
ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]You are a genocide supporter. Your soul will never be whole again and the rest of humanity sees you for the snivelling aberration that you are.
Frank [he/him, he/him]The last four years have utterly shattered any illusions i’d had left about the true nature of democrats. Me too, blm, covid, yemen, and now gaza. They are serpents.
He won’t. You have two evil options. Your country is evil.
Why does this have to be about Trump? Biden has been a president for the past year and he enabled the genocide. No one is pretending Trump will be better. We just don’t want to vote for a pro-genocide party be it red or blue. Democrats deserve to lose votes over their support for Israel.
Erika3sis [she/her, xe/xem]Never think that geocentrists were stupid. They were wrong, certainly, but they were not stupid: while it doesn’t take much intellect to initially conclude that Earth is the center of the solar system, it does take a very great amount of intellect to rationalize away the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
This is not a comment about people who voted or are planning on voting for Kamala Harris — this is an entirely unrelated observation about a completely different topic.
Infamousblt [any]Ukraine? Lol good fuck those Nazis.
The rest? The Dems had 4 years to codify any sort of federal law protecting those groups while states rolled those protections back, and didn’t. So yes by you pretending that voting blue is some sort of moral high ground despite their constant failings in actually protecting queer and trans and black and women’s rights you are choosing to support more death of those people.
Also the Dems literally caused the genocide in Palestine by pledging, and supplying, unlimited support to Israel.
Basically this is you
Even if you’re voting Harris et al., don’t you think they should be called out for supporting genocide? Have you even tried to convince Biden or Harris or your reps in Congress to stop supporting genocide?
Moreover, once they know that they can get enough votes and win while supporting genocide, then they’ll know they can do anything and have enough votes to win. While all paths lead to increasingly fascistic governance in the US, the path you’re advocating is the most accelerationist scenario.
Even if you’re voting Harris et al., don’t you think they should be called out for supporting genocide?
Yes. Full stop.
Have you even tried to convince Biden or Harris or your reps in Congress to stop supporting genocide?
Yes, and not just on the Internet. I am fortunate enough to have some influence, but to be fair Gaza is one of the subjects and not the only subject matter I push for.
Moreover, once they know that they can get enough votes and win while supporting genocide, then they’ll know they can do anything and have enough votes to win. While all paths lead to increasingly fascistic governance in the US, the path you’re advocating is the most accelerationist scenario.
This is a tough one, not gonna lie. First, if it was anyone other than Trump and the guarantee of a fascist dictatorship under his rule (and it would be “rule”) running, I would not vote for Harris. Second, and much more important, is that nowadays I have far less influence than in the past. Ten to fourteen years ago I would have the opportunity to sit and talk with politicians in Texas and I even used to have the occasional chat with Obama whenever he visited Austin. Now I have none of that AND amongst my colleagues in the tech sector I seem to be the only one who cares about Gaza and Palestinians in any measurable form. The ugly truth is that I do not see a good way to enact pressure at the moment. What I do know is that under a Trump administration the complete obliteration of the Palestinian people is guaranteed. Under Harris I could at least make some calls without getting jailed or falling out of a window.
This is a tough one, not gonna lie. First, if it was anyone other than Trump and the guarantee of a fascist dictatorship under his rule (and it would be “rule”) running, I would not vote for Harris.
Then I am happy to inform you that Trump would never be a fascist dictator. There is no crisis of capitalism in this country that requires such a thing, the capitalist class that actually dictates the terms likes the system working exactly how it does now. They are in the heart of empire that provides them with super-profits through financial schemes and militarism.
Trump is rude and hamfisted and reactionary, but he cannot take a seat as a proper fascist because fascism is about restoring capitalist interests under major threat, namely an insurgent left, itself responding to a crisis of capitalism like loss of imperialist status and transformation into a further and further imperialized country.
Unfortunately, the US basically has no left. This is pretty obvious from how well normalization of genocide is going.
But given your statement, so long as you understand, correctly, that Trump will not be a dictator, then you will not vote for Harris, and I assume that you won’t advocate for her, either.
So that really just leaves one question: can you find any fault in my logic on Trump becoming a dictator?
BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]Stupid tankies. Don’t you see the trolley priblem clearly proves that genocide is fine
kroldenI like how the trolley meme is peak liberal morality test
More of an intelligence test. “Do you understand the fact that inaction had consequences?” Helps separate adults from children.
halyk.the.redMakes sense. As a grown adult, I also require overly simplistic illustrations in order to grasp concepts.
When you are filtering out the young, the dumb, and those arguing in bad faith, overly simplistic is an excellent first filter. If they can pass that base level filter of rudimentary critical thinking skills, then you can feel free to enter into more must’ve and subtlety.
No point in engaging with those who can’t even grasp the simplest concepts.
Seems like a bigger waste of time to just end up engaging with people who can vault over pictures, but can’t handle nuance.
Start the discussion on an intellectual level, and those who can’t grasp it can go read until they’re ready to talk.
Or they can go find someone else who will argue with cartoons or whatever, I’m sure they’ll be happier there.
When it comes to battling fascist-enabling rhetoric, I prefer as comprehensive an approach as possible. In truth, the circle jerk tankies and bad faith actors won’t be swayed by any amount of intellectual engagement. The goal isn’t to convince them, it’s to publicly counter their garbage takes in as simple and straightforward a way as possible, in order to avoid letting sincere but impressionable leftists fall for superficially reasonable looking moral imperatives.
it’s adorable that you think you’re a leftist little fash
Forgive me for not valuing the opinion of a counterproductive tankie pretending they have authority to gatekeep effective leftists.
Everyone needs a hobby, I suppose.
You can do worse for hobbies than fighting fascist-enabling rhetoric.
I’m starting to think now the trolley problem should be reframed as a catch-22 / false choice / manufactured consent.
Who constructed this trolley? Why are there only two options shown? Do these options actually match reality? etc.
u think voting for california’s ex head pig is gonna keep black people safe from pigs??? how does that work? how does continuing the “i think we can all agree what we need is to found the police” regime make black people safe from pigs?
Also how would republicans be worse than Palestinians than the continuation of a regime currently led by a self proclaimed non jewish zionists.
also also democrats could have and did nothing to protect womens bodily autonomy and they have done next to nothing for lgbtq people or any other oppressed peoples for that matter.
but non of that matters there is regime in power which is genocidal which has done everything in its power to support and aid a genocide, u can either support it or not, that is all.
Why do you support a system that repeatedly makes you choose between mega hitler and giga hitler? Surely you recognize that such a system is evil and participation is an endorsement of it.
That’s a very difficult concept for them to understand. The mental gymnastics I’ve seen them use to excuse or defend genocide has been wild.
By just saying, “I don’t want to endorse a genocide.” sends them into a frothing rage, with arguments immediately fired against the right. They see it as ‘us vs. them’, but fail to see that people don’t want to endorse a genocide no matter the color of the party.
darth_tiktaalikNon-participation is simply letting the greater evil win.
They’re not suddenly going to ditch first past the post because of some protest voters/abstainers.
Dem supporters have been holding their noses for 50+ years and voting for the “lesser evil”. If that has brought us to this election, where your choice is between “genocide” and “genocide +”, isn’t it obvious that voting for the “lesser evil” just inevitably trends towards the greater evil over time? It is not a successful strategy at mitigating harm.
“Over time” being the crucial detail. I’ll take every opportunity I can to buy time to slow the trend toward greater evil. Gives us time to get actual leftists into positions that will actually make them viable presidential candidates.
Those 150+ years of bourgeois “democracy” (IE capitalist dictatorship) got the US to where it is now. Don’t worry tho, keep doing the same thing over and over again, the US just keeps improving. /s
isn’t it obvious that voting for the “lesser evil” just inevitably trends towards the greater evil over time? .
What’s obvious is that multiple election cycles of non-participation lead to people who want the greater evil winning the vote more often.
It is not a successful strategy at mitigating harm
Counterpoint: literally any of the things that happened under Trump that Hillary almost certainly wouldn’t have done.
Like nominating three of the judges that overturned roe
We’ve been down that road before
What doesn’t happen is non-participation leading to the abolishion of America’s two party system.
RatzChatsuboThis guy gets it
Since you just did the thing they described but without addressing it, let me repeat them.
Why do you support a system that repeatedly makes you choose between mega hitler and giga hitler? Surely you recognize that such a system is evil and participation is an endorsement of it.
Because if Giga Hitler wins, then the Overton window shifts even farther, and the next election is between Giga Hitler and Hyper Giga Hitler Zero.
It shifts right under both because the population does not build leverage against either but both Hitlers eschew anything vaguely left.
That’s incorrect.
Biden-Harris is the “Mega Hitler”. It is doing a genocide right now. The party moved right under them.
I’m pretty sure the party has done a genocide before, so IDK about “moved right”.
I agree the status quo is fucking awful, I just don’t agree that pouring gas on the fire will help.
Dems are embracing Trump’s wall and harsh immigration stances, tolerating transphobic candidates, and doing this genocide fairly openly.
I think electing more Dems would be the accelerationist position
Holy cognitive dissonance, Batman!
So you’ve stopped paying taxes then? Since “such a system is evil and participation is an endorsement of it”
It’s those tax dollars that build bombs for Israel. If you’re paying them, you’re paying for genocide.
So you’ve stopped paying taxes then? Since “such a system is evil and participation is an endorsement of it”
The MIC is funded through financial magic and imperialism. If tax fraud would oppose them, I would probably do it, but it really does not.
It’s those tax dollars that build bombs for Israel. If you’re paying them, you’re paying for genocide.
The “tax dollars” for the bombs are invented out of thin air. However, the people that make the bombs and deliver the bombs and drop the bombs are doing all of those things and we should organize to stymy those efforts.
What would you call a machine that routinely and predictably offers produces evil options with marginal differences between them? How reliable of an evil-producer does this machine have to be before you recognize that the production of a certain type of evil is the machine’s purpose?