Feds Say You Don’t Have a Right to Check Out Retro Video Games Like Library Books

https://lemmy.world/post/21304012

Feds Say You Don’t Have a Right to Check Out Retro Video Games Like Library Books - Lemmy.World

“Most of the world’s video games from close to 50 years of history are effectively, legally dead. A Video Games History Foundation study found you can’t buy nearly 90% of games from before 2010. Preservationists have been looking for ways to allow people to legally access gaming history, but the U.S. Copyright Office dealt them a heavy blow Friday. Feds declared that you or any researcher has no right to access old games under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or DMCA.”

Shithole country.
It aint the country doing this per se... It is the ownrr class using the state against the slaves. Again
Unfortunately, this is exactly what is turning (and has been turning) the US into a shithole country.
That’s…what a country is.

Industry groups argued that those museums didn’t have “appropriate safeguards” to prevent users from distributing the games once they had them in hand.

Good grief. Some of these games have been on the Internet longer than I have been alive. They are 100-fucking-percent already available on ROM sites. You’re just shitting on people’s enjoyment for the sake of shitting.

“The game industry’s absolutist position… forces researchers to explore extra-legal methods to access the vast majority of out-of-print video games that are otherwise unavailable,” the VGHF wrote.

The spice must flow, and I can assure you that it already does.

Industry groups argued that those museums didn’t have “appropriate safeguards” to prevent users from distributing the games once they had them in hand.

So libraries are also illegal? Books, DVDs, VHS, CDS, etc. You can replace games with any of those.

They’ve been actively fighting libraries over the years, with renewed fervor in the last decade. As numerous others have pointed out before–including the article I linked–if libraries hadn’t already been such a long-standing concept for centuries, they would 100% not be allowed to come into existence nowadays. Hyper greed has poisoned every facet of modern society.
Book Publishers Won’t Stop Until Libraries Are Dead

Earlier this week there was finally a hearing in the case brought by the big book publishers to kill off libraries. That, of course, is not how the publishers describe the lawsuit, but it’s absolut…

Techdirt

hyper greed

You misspelled neoliberal capitalism

Libraries are clearly communist… or anarchist… either way, I hate it!

BS. Greed is a motive that has been here always. The difference is in ability. That ability lies in preventing public from organizing, crowd control. It’s been given by the Internet and computers. Because where before public would organize in their own spaces, now it’s someone else’s ground where all kinds of meddling and weird rules can exist.

What must be obscure has become apparent for those who want it.

Because of ability to process information and fulfill manipulations of worldwide scale.

That aside, the ethos of breaking rules doesn’t exist.

Some people think they can do any evil to a person who disrespects them, and surely don’t owe them what they paid for, or payment for their work, or something else. Some other people think that any obligation is lit in titanium, and whatever were the circumstances of taking it, you owe it in full, and if there’s contradiction, then the less certain obligation loses. Some people think this depends on one’s weight in society.

All these are defeated by power. The first kind - they are just miserable slaves, no honor at all, and they’ll always be manipulated to others’ goals, and will never know when to make a dignified sacrifice, but they will be sacrificed. The second kind - they think they are honorable, but of the internally contradictory net of obligations they choose those imposed by power, and ignore those countering it, and pretend to be oblivious of there being a system in their choices, they are hypocrites and the least reliable kind. The third kind - these are obedient jackals, you might get betrayed by them, but generally can safely treat them as furniture.

In some sense following rules is surrendering your own dignity and responsibility. A person responsible for themselves decides whether to follow every rule existing.

OK. Shorter - when you have a city, eventually you’ll have to demolish something old to build something new. When you have a house\apartment, eventually you’ll have to throw out some old furniture, break some walls, dispose of the garbage.

It’s similar with legal systems. Between nice good IP laws supposedly protecting creators and ability to freely communicate and exchange information, the latter is more precious. It’s our common interest to resolve the contradiction without conflict, but those people seem to think they don’t have to compromise. It doesn’t matter what they think.

We used to rent these games from Blockbuster Video! On DVD when we had DVD burners and little to no drm! How did it suddenly not become acceptable?
Lobbying. The greedy fucks will lobby until they get their way
Physical rentals are still legal. This is only about the legality of online rom downloads.

I’m speaking mainly of the distrust against the public having access for fear that we’d abuse it and not give them a cut. We can’t have access to these things now, but we used to. Regardless of form, regardless of piracy.

It’s more of a move to restrict ownership when you make a purchase, that has a farther reach than just games. I could see this being applied to cars, houses, etc. In that you only rent a license, and don’t actually own anything. I see this as just a first step, and the logic they use to justify it doesn’t make sense.

We can’t have access to these things now, but we used to.

??? There was no change. It was always illegal. This was a petition to change it to be legal and the petition was denied.

Despite it being illegal, Internet Archive has hosted and I hope will continue to host roms collections like tiny best set go.

Industry groups argued that those museums didn’t have “appropriate safeguards” to prevent users from distributing the games once they had them in hand.

And what exactly is stopping me from scanning library books and uploading them online? Are you going to ban libraries too?

Actually, let’s not give them ideas.

They would love to ban libraries.
If they didn’t already exist, it’s doubtful they would have been legal to make.
Isnt that what the InternetArchive did, disabled controlled lending during covid and got sued?
Wait till they hear of scanners and copy machines. The books aren’t safe either!

Even worse. I’ve checked out digital eBooks and digital audiobooks from my local library. And I listened to those audiobooks for FUN. The AUDACITY!

Audacity is what I used to record those audiobooks so I could listen at my own pace, btw.

Physical books have no safeguards from photocopying.

I have more terrifying news about museums. We are talking pictures worth MILLIONS just waiting to be photographed.

Good grief. Some of these games have been on the Internet longer than I have been alive.

blink blink

God damn, I’m old…

An intern at work once asked me what a CD was and I had to explain that it was a vinyl for computers.
People will just continue pirating those games then.
The most popular games will likely continue to get pirated, all this will do is guarantee that some small vintage games are lost to time.
Yo ho ho and fuck the police
I too travel the seven seas for hidden loot ⛵
In this case it’s the corporate lawyers and lawmakers setting these precedents, not the police.

“Fair Use” is a thing. Someone needs to go back to law school.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Fair use - Wikipedia

Pearson is trying really fucking hard to write that out of the public consciousness. I took an econ 101 class about 12y ago for funsies and the section of the course on copyright insisted that “the rights of publishers” were absolute with no exemptions.

Of course, it’s in their best interests to falsely educate.

IMO when it comes to educational books that are intended to be used within an educational system like a college, first amendment shouldn’t apply. The entire purpose is to educate the public your freedom of speech interferes with facts. Should it be found that your books consciously represented misinformation, the company is automatically found at fault and must recall then replace all books at their own cost and be fined tens of thousands of dollars per book that remains after five years.

Should they fail to replace 80% of all sold books within those 5 years, the entire chain of command responsible will face prison terms no lower than one year.

There were so many textbooks I had through my years of education that were blatantly wrong.

I’m also looking at those schools who want to teach creationism in place of evolution. Can’t misrepresent facts when the books you can use get recalled.

Bet you read that in a textbook
how do the rights of the copyright holders interact with CCTV?

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

  • the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
  • the nature of the copyrighted work;
  • the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
  • the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
  • The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

    I’m no lawyer, but I can’t really find a way that fair use is applicable in this case. Also point 4 is taken into consideration here. And no I obviously don’t agree that games shouldn’t be allowed in libraries. The law should be changed. I just don’t see how fair use is relevant.

    See also first sale doctrine:

    “Lending of physical books held by the library is permitted under the first sale doctrine. In other instances, such as making copies of articles and checking them out to students, libraries may rely on fair use to justify course reserves. A recent landmark case related to electronic reserves is Cambridge v. Patton, in which a group of publishers sued Georgia State University for their liberal e-reserves policy. The courts held GSU to be the prevailing party, finding fair use in the majority of alleged infringements”

    guides.library.oregonstate.edu/…/libraries#:~:tex….

    See also Ben Franklin:

    smithsonianmag.com/…/how-ben-franklin-invented-li…

    LibGuides: Copyright and Fair Use: Exceptions for Libraries and Archives

    An overview of copyright, focusing on your rights as a copyright owner and use of other people's works in academic contexts

    Interesting.

    If you click the first link under :

    Q. How does copyright apply to library lending? What is the “first sale doctrine” and how does it apply to libraries? Why are the rules for lending e-books different than print books? How does copyright relate to used book sales?

    www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#109

    You get a legal text which is almost completely unreadable to me.

    But the law explicitly mentions video games:

    (B) This subsection does not apply to—

    (i) a computer program which is embodied in a machine or product and which cannot be copied during the ordinary operation or use of the machine or product; or

    (ii) a computer program embodied in or used in conjunction with a limited purpose computer that is designed for playing video games and may be designed for other purposes.

    © Nothing in this subsection affects any provision of chapter 9 of this title.

    Do I understand the section above that? Hell no. It’s in a foreign language to me (literally and figuratively).

    I feed the entire section to chatGPT and asked it about libraries and video games. It says that video games generally aren’t allowed to be lend at libraries. It’s AI so take it with a grain of salt but to be fair LLMs are pretty good at analysing large amounts of text like this. But if you can read it, I encourage you to do that instead.

    Chapter 1 - Circular 92 | U.S. Copyright Office

    Subject Matter and Scope of Copyright

    The DMCA is a curse.
    I’d say it’s more intolerably long copyright terms than the DMCA specifically.
    The DMCA is just the icing on top of the 95-120y “work for hire” copyright duration shit cake.
    And not a fun place to stay at at all
    It’s fun to violate the D-M-C-A 🎵

    That’s cool. Won’t really stop any of the shit that’s been happening though.

    Good luck corpos, for every pirate you take away ten more will take their place.

    They’re trashing our rights!

    Hack the planet!

    Trashing!
    Cereal towering over everyone trying to stay inconspicuous during that scene always cracks me up.
    And the fashion, oh wow, such an aesthetic.
    Guess I don’t understand, are they saying places Like Vintage Stock that sells old games illegal? Or are they talking about digital backups of these games. Regardless fuck them and the copyright office. This makes me want to pirate more not less.
    luckily there’s more details to read when you click the link.
    I answered your question on another thread of the same topic, but I’ll answer it here too for anyone else who has the same question: The law is just about digital backups. Vintage stores are still legal, and if anything this would boost sales at a vintage stores. If the game you’d like to play is unavailable at a vintage store or on eBay (or wherever else) then it will be entirely inaccessible for you to play legally.
    So if I’m understanding what you are saying correctly this is pro “book” burning. Only in this case it is games. If a group or entity wants to make a piece of history more scarce or wipe it from the planet because they disagree with it, buying up or destroying as many physical copies that exist would work because people legally can’t back them up or print more copies essentially?
    The IP owner can print more, but if the owner is gone or legally unclear, then yes. Although I don’t think this was the real intention, because greed looks like a simpler reason and fits
    This isn’t even targeting pirates it’s targeting legitimate users. If anything, this will create more pirates.
    Federal law does not apply to me as a Swede in Sweden.
    Nor I, as a sovereign citizen in the United States.
    I do not wish to enjoinder with your Game Launcher and anonymous telephony
    I’m not downloading it, the bits are travelling to my hard drive.
    May I could check out a paper copy of those bits, would that be okay? Then it’s not a digital copy
    First time I see something like this net upvoted. Mood improved.