My Florida Native Garden@emimuehsam
First thing: you are not interrupting at all! This platform was designed to include anybody who has anything to say, so you are completely entitled to insert your thoughts here, as our different points of view enrich us all.
You are right in your assertion that we are not separate from nature but inherently part of it. (Continued)
2)It’s the way we are treating it today and let’s be honest for centuries, that has separated us from it. To me capitalism is the natural result of the gradual but constant increase in our (humans’) need to dominate. Domination requires power. Power requires resources. If we only hold capitalism responsible for the problems we excuse ourselves, blame a “system” (continued)
@emimuehsam
3) That’s too convenient for my taste. The solutions to the problems on Earth start by humans accepting that we (all of us, by simply existing) have caused the degradation of the planet. It’s a punch in the stomach for many to accept this. It requires a deep introspection and some people don’t want to go to the places introspection takes us. (1 more)
Panda CabI, as a human being, didn't ask for, nor create an oil-dependent society. I was born in it. I do benefit from this system we're living in, but the degradation my continued survival causes to the planet is not an universal law... Again, many people live respectfully to their environment. Many of them are actively threatened by other humans.
My or your personal responsibility in the global ecocide is likely very minor because we have very little impact on our environment and society due to hierarchical power structures (capitalism being one of the biggest responsible right now). To put a blanket blame on every human being human is overly simplistic...
@FrenchPanda
Humans have struggled to live sustainably even from before there were societies as we know them today. Case in point: the extinction of megafauna because of over-hunting in the late Pleistocene. Yes, there were other factors that contributed, but humans gave the megafauna the final blow.
Easter Island: all! trees were cleared to create farmland, build canoes, etc. (continued)
RDThe megafauna extinction is far from understood as definitively as you portray it here, but even if it was it does not prove anything absolute about human beings and there are many counter-examples of sustainable resource management.
The standard Rapa Nui narrative you refer to is also being seriously questioned:
Easter Island study casts doubt on theory of ‘ecocide’ by early population
https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/jun/21/easter-island-study-casts-doubt-on-theory-of-ecocide-by-early-population
The truth about Easter Island: a sustainable society has been falsely blamed for its own demise
https://theconversation.com/the-truth-about-easter-island-a-sustainable-society-has-been-falsely-blamed-for-its-own-demise-85563
@RD4Anarchy @FrenchPanda @emimuehsam @gerrymcgovern
Re: Easter Island. Whether it was the Easter islanders themselves or some other inavading power makes no difference. It was humans who did this. Not a volcano, not a meteorite, not an earthquake or tsunami. Humans.
Re: Easter Island. Whether it was the Easter islanders themselves or some other inavading power makes no difference. It was humans who did this. Not a volcano, not a meteorite, not an earthquake or tsunami. Humans.
_noelamac_@nathaliaassaad @RD4Anarchy @FrenchPanda @emimuehsam @gerrymcgovern
Interesting thread.
Perhaps some of you know Daniel Quinn’s Ishmael book series, in which he explores the relationship between our “civilized” culture, which he calls Takers, and the others he calls Leavers.
Deep down, ours isn’t a problem of “human nature”, but a problem of human values and the cultural myths that shape them.
@_noelamac_ @nathaliaassaad @FrenchPanda @emimuehsam @gerrymcgovern @HeavenlyPossum
If the vast majority of people are dominated and coerced by a tiny class of people with access to concentrated power, does that mean that human nature in general is defined by the characteristics and narratives of that tiny class?
(My answer is no.)
HeavenlyPossum@FrenchPanda @gerrymcgovern @nathaliaassaad @emimuehsam @_noelamac_ @RD4Anarchy
It’s like watching a bear ride a tiny bicycle in a circus act and concluding that is bear nature.
But here's a list of bears on tiny bicycle, which proves that it's bears' nature. /s
@gerrymcgovern @nathaliaassaad @emimuehsam @_noelamac_ @RD4Anarchy
heeeyyyy... wait a sec... this list is all circuses, or people who captured and trained bears to sell them to a circus 🤔
@HeavenlyPossum @gerrymcgovern @nathaliaassaad @emimuehsam @_noelamac_
@emimuehsam @gerrymcgovern @RD4Anarchy @nathaliaassaad @FrenchPanda
It kind of does make a big difference, because it a) disproves your core claim about human nature and b) points to social forms that people could adopt that would not result in environmental over-exploitation, which we can know with confidence *because people literally actually already did it.*