And yet when piecemealed liberals and Republicans will completely embrace the aspects of project 2025. The same way they’re doing KOSA

Not as bad as schilling for the Russian plant Jill Stein— or acting like a traitor to promote a foreign power during an election.

You don’t know anyone like that, do you?

Yeah, this guy’s ramping up his activity like he’s being paid for it.

(Note to moderators: I am not accusing anyone of being a Russian troll, I’m simply describing someone’s rather prodigious and homogeneous recent activity.)

Removed by mod for good reason!

Eh. I disagree, but I can take my lumps.

Good on ya for respecting mods, but bruh, not everyone here to is not voting for harris is paid for by someone. Actually about half of the country isn’t voting for Harris. And they’re not getting paid to dislike her.

That’s true. But…

We know there is an extensive campaign by the Russian government to divide the left and attempt to get Trump re-elected. And given the nature of our current electoral system, there are only a few reasons why someone would try to get people not to vote for Harris:

• They are an honest Trump supporter. Fine. I disagree vehemently, of course, but such is life.
• They are a true-believing third-party supporter. Very rare, given the low numbers for fringe candidates from third parties. Of course, these people are incredibly naive, because they don’t understand how third parties in a FPTP election system empower their own ideological opposition, but at least they’re honest, too.
• They are a Trump supporter, but not honest, and for whatever reason, they consider it morally and ethically acceptable to misrepresent themselves and try to get folks on the left playing a game of "let’s you and him fight."
• They are a paid actor. I think this is the majority of the supposed leftists posting vehemently and continuously against Harris, while ignoring the grotesque abomination and clear threat to the country that is Trump.

I mean that. I think the majority of people playing that particular game are paid to. Doesn’t mean they all are, of course, but it’s impossible to ignore the massive uptick in content from them right now, especially from shiny new accounts and from accounts that have been mostly inactive until now. There just aren’t that many third-party true believers or Republicans who want to spend all day, every day, pretending to be abrasive leftists.

What about new accounts posting pro-democrat articles. Are they agents of the democratic party being paid to post articles too?

Given the much greater size of the population that plans to vote Democrat, not likely.

Let’s take this out of the realm of politics for a sec, and bring up a topic nearly everyone can agree on: Chocolate. A full 90% of Americans like chocolate and prefer it to other candy categories. (Seriously, look it up. Americans fucking love chocolate.) Now imagine if you went to a candy discussion forum, and found that there was a flood of similarly-phrased and comments from a bunch of new accounts, all extolling the virtues of gummy bears and denigrating chocolate as a candy choice.

Would you find that believable? Or would you suspect some gummy bear aficionado had set up bots to spam the forum?

But is everything a fucking conspiracy?! I mean, a full HALF of the country is not voting for Harris. Half.

Are there some people paid to promote? Yeah, I’m sure there are. For EVERY party. I just don’tt think it’s nearly as much as you do.

Also, it would be a total fucking waste of money to pay someone to shill on Lemmy. Lemmy hates third-parties with a passion anyway. People hate me so much, that when I have posted non-political posts to say a science community, within 30 seconds there will be 10 downvotes. And not from the science community, because even they get confused why so many downvotes so fast. Why? My name. And why? Because I posted third-party articles.

I’m very proud to vote third-party, but the amount of bullying and false accusations I get from Democrats are much more hateful than what I get from Republicans. I mean, Republicans hate me too, but nothing like the Democrats on Lemmy. lmao

And I promise you, any slight motivation I had for even considering switching to Democrat, was obliterated by the comments and hate I get here. lol

I don’t hate you. I think you’re incredibly naive, and I think you’ve likely inadvertently consumed Russian propaganda specifically designed to split the left in the United States, but that doesn’t make me hate you.

It just makes me sad.

I have a couple kids, as I mentioned, both LGBTQ+. People like you, I don’t think you intend my kids harm. But your vote will potentially boost Donald Trump. And your rhetoric online, if successful, would further boost Donald Trump. And Trump is a direct threat to my kids.

So no, I don’t hate you. But I’m scared of what you and people like you could do to my kids in the name of ideological purity.

inadvertently consumed Russian propaganda

So now everything that disagrees with you is Russian propaganda? Half of the country is not voting for Harris. They all under the influence of Russian propaganda too?

I’m going to blow your mind:

prri.org/…/new-prri-report-reveals-nearly-one-in-…

It’s certainly not half the country, but a shockingly, disturbingly large portion of the Republican electorate fell for “QAnon” junk being spread largely by Russian sources posing as conservatives. The left is far less susceptible to outright propaganda tactics like that, but Russia is pushing for division extremely hard.

And from how many people here think that every single poster who isn’t voting for Harris, is some paid russian agent, it seems like a pretty big chunk of the Democrat electorate is gullible and paranoid too.

You need to account for sampling bias. This is a forum that strongly attracts a self-selecting group comprised almost entirely of those on the left. Very few Republicans actually find their way here, and the few that do are typically downvoted into oblivion.

At the same time, there’s a flood of supposedly leftist accounts, most new, trying desperately to get Trump elected, at the same time as news comes out that… well, that Russia is doing an awful lot of that shit.

So people here are suspicious.

This is a forum that strongly attracts a self-selecting group comprised almost entirely of those on the left. Very few Republicans actually find their way here, and the few that do are typically downvoted into oblivion.

So then why would Russian lackey’s come and post in a forum where they know no one will change their minds?

So actually your argument proves to me that they are not Russians trying to turn the vote. I get accused of being Russian, every single day here. lol

I thought that would be obvious. Again, this is a self-selecting group of lefty folks. If someone works in one of Russia’s troll farms, and their job today is to try to divide the left, then they’re gonna go to where the left hangs out.

If someone like that shows up shouting, “Trump 2024! MAGA!” then they’re not going to make any headway. Like I said, Republicans here tend to get downvoted into oblivion.

So instead, they show up and go, “I’m a lefty, too. Very left. In fact, I’m so leftilicious that I hate Harris. Don’t vote for Harris, she’s just like the Republicans! Instead, vote for [INSERT CANDIDATE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING]! Because believe me, [INSERT CANDIDATE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING] is much, much better! Be ideologically pure! And whatever you do, don’t worry about Donald Trump becoming president, because I’m sure that with enough of us voting for them, [INSERT CANDIDATE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING] will totes win!”

So instead, they show up and go, “I’m a lefty, too. Very left. In fact, I’m so leftilicious that I hate Harris.

And they get downvoted to oblivion. And even stalked. It happened to me actually! lol

It’s true, they do. But not always. It depends on how many there are in any given post, spam-upvoting each other. And… it depends on how successful their divisive arguments are. As far as they’re concerned, it doesn’t matter if 99% of the time they fail to get traction. They’re going for that 1%, that one susceptible person who can be convinced to throw their vote away on a third-party candidate in a FPTP election where that vote has a 0% chance of electing that third-party candidate.

Personally, I don’t think you’re one of the Russian trolls. I think you’re one of their victims.

Personally, I don’t think you’re one of the Russian trolls. I think you’re one of their victims.

Friend, I’ve been voting since the 1988 election. Almost always third-party. Based on my social connections and third parties and groups I have met and protested with.

And before that, even when in grade school I never liked the idea of two main political parties running things.

I’ve been doing this long before “Russian propaganda” was a thing. We didn’t even have internet when I started questioning things.

Personally, I don’t think you’re one of the Duopoly trolls. But I do think you’re one of their victims.

I want to ask you something. Don’t answer immediately, stop to really think about the answer and what it means.

How many politicians have you voted for that either won or got second place? In our FPTP system, those are the only outcomes that matter. Winning means you got into an elected position. Second place means you may still have a political future.

If you’ve been voting mostly third-party your entire adult life, there is a very good chance you have literally never had any effect on any election whatsoever. You and every single other voter who voted for your preferred candidates could have stayed home on election day and not only would the winner have remained the same, the person who came in second would have stayed the same.

I’m willing to bet that if you stop and add up every single time your preferred candidate won or got second place, and every single time that person was running as either a Democrat or a Republican, you’ll find that it’s the same number.

Let’s break this down. You’re saying that unless my candidate wins or places second, my vote doesn’t matter.

But if the vast majority of people are convinced that only the “top two” matter, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why? Because everyone keeps voting for who they think will win instead of who actually represents them.

This mindset locks us into the very duopoly that keeps the same tired system in place. The moment we accept that third-party candidates don’t matter, we’re giving more power to the existing system that thrives on limiting our choices. Voting isn’t just about winning today, it’s about showing that people do want alternatives, and that sends a signal that can’t be ignored forever.

Let’s break this down. Seems like you’re saying that unless my candidate wins or places second, my vote doesn’t matter.

YES. That’s exactly what I’m saying. In a FPTP election system, that’s literally how it works.

I’m not a fan of it. I’d love for a vote that goes to a third party to actually count in some way. But in the current system we all live under, that’s not what happens. Instead, at best you get a Ross Perot - someone who pulls votes from both parties. He became a media darling for a while because of it. But you know what? All his voters may as well have stayed home, because he got neither first nor second place. We had Bill Clinton, we had Bush the Elder as a one-termer, and both Perot and his independent party faded into obscurity.

That won’t change until we get rid of FPTP elections. That’s a prerequisite for third-party votes mattering.

Until then, you have literally thrown every vote you’ve ever cast for a third-party candidate away. It didn’t matter. And it even helped the candidate you were most ideologically opposed to.

If you dispute that, you dispute math.

And by you being so adamant about it, and trying to pressure people not to vote for third party, you are actually contributing to the problem.

You’re actually reinforcing the very system that we’re stuck with. Instead of allowing space for new voices and genuine alternatives, that pressure discourages change and keeps the duopoly alive.

I’m voting third party. Proudly. I don’t care how many people try to pressure me or bully me. I’m sticking with the Socialist party. Thank you!

I’m not being “adamant” about it, just realistic. Until we do away with FPTP voting, I will continue to encourage voters to pick the candidate that is furthest to the left and also has a good chance to win, because that’s the pragmatic solution and the only route to viable third-party candidates.