I’m still working my way through Dan Davies’ new book, The Unaccountability Machine. In part, the book is a history of business management cybernetics. Today I learned that leading cybernetician Stafford Beer tried to build a computer out of a tank of Daphnia. Here’s Beer, quoted by Davies, describing what he called his ‘computing pond’:

Many experiments were made…Iron filings were included with dead leaves in the tank of Daphnia, which ingested sufficient of the former to respond to a magnetic field. Attempts were made to feed inputs into the colony…However, there were many experimental problems. The most serious of these was the collapse of any incipient organization – apparently due to the steadily increasing suspension of tiny permanent magnets in the water.

Davies goes on to remark that it’s not entirely clear what Beer was hoping to achieve with this experiment, or even if it was entirely serious. As best one can tell, it seems to have been at least a partially serious attempt to somehow encode a computing problem into the initial conditions of the pond, so that the subsequent eco-evolutionary dynamics would somehow calculate a solution to the problem.

Clearly, Meghan needs to revive the idea of a ‘computing pond’ in her next NSF grant. No need to acknowledge me, Meghan–feel free to tell NSF it’s entirely your idea. 🙂

image source

Related old posts

Experiments so crazy they just might work

Tell me again what “risky” or “potentially transformative” research is?

https://dynamicecology.wordpress.com/2024/09/18/computing-ponds/

The Unaccountability Machine: Dan Davies: 9781788169547: Books - Amazon.ca

The Unaccountability Machine: Dan Davies: 9781788169547: Books - Amazon.ca

While I recognize this as a joke, Galileo, Newton and Darwin/Wallace were all probably working on ideas as creative as Computing Ponds. As were Barry Marshall (discoverer that H. pylori causes ulcers and stomach cancer) and Katalin Kariko (who labored in obscurity to lead to the mrna COVID vaccine and the almost limitless potential of mrna medicine). Arguably in ecology Lindeman and Odum (founders of ecosystem ecology), the original Brown & Maurer macroecology papers and probably others were out in that zone too. I don’t know the details, but I bet people who suggested an obscure relative of fungi was causing a global collapse of frogs were out on their own for a while too.

Society in general, and countries whose funding agencies only fund projects rather than researchers (e.g. NSF) in particular, have lost something by not sincerely pursuing funding of bold, out there science. From your description, it certainly sounds like Stafford Beer had earned some rope.

Barry Marshall - Wikipedia

It wasn’t just Beer. The leading cyberneticians all were doing these sorts of odd demonstrations (and that’s what they seem to have been really–demonstrations, rather than experiments). Building strange devices like “homeostats” and “turtles” to demonstrate abstract principles of homeostasis, for instance.

Beer’s computing pond does sound like a particularly out-there experiment/demonstration, in that he seems not to have had any very clear idea of what he was trying to demonstrate or achieve. The people who built the homeostats and turtles at least had a clear idea of what abstract principle they were trying to demonstrate. Beer’s computing pond sounds to me more like just messing around to see what happens. Which definitely has its place in sparking creative science. But I do think there’s a (fuzzy) line between “funding exploratory research and creative, off-the-wall ideas” and “paying people to mess around aimlessly”.

I’m thinking back to my review of How the Hippies Saved Physics. The Fundamental Physiks group did do some creative and important science. But they also did stuff like “try to build a quantum typewriter, so that we can send messages to the dead, and the dead can reply.” I dunno, maybe I’m just falling into the hindsight-is-20-20-vision trap, and so overestimating my own ability to distinguish creative-but-potentially-promising research from just messing around. But I do feel like there’s a difference between funding mRNA research even though many biomedical people didn’t think it was promising, and funding computing ponds and quantum typewriters.

I guess I have less faith than you in our ability to know a priori what crazy ideas pan out or not. We don’t even have that great a track record with incremental work. I think the only way to handle this is probabilistically. Like venture capitalists we should place a lot of modest bets on high risk/high return projects. Something grant agencies pay lip service to, but in practice don’t come close to. Venture capitalists on the other hand do exactly that (and we generally think of VC as central to technology innovation). Of course VC has some other principals like fail fast and doing some shadowing to keep an eye on where things are going.

Just as an example of grant agencies not taking risk, I link to this brand new comment on an old post by John Harte as it’s germane. I just got a paper in Science that NSF rejected twice (more or less accurate to say; it was the biggest but one of several ideas in a career grant that was rejected twice) because it was too ambitious or methods were too unproven .

I say put a separate pot of money out there for crazy ideas. Make the awards small. But keep a portfolio of crazy going.

Or maybe just adopt the Canadian model of funding the researcher. Serves largely the same ends.

Experiments so crazy they just might work (UPDATED)

Have you ever done an experiment that’s very unlikely to produce an interesting result, but if it did, it would have a huge impact? An experiment so crazy it just might work? Back when I was …

Dynamic Ecology

“Just as an example of grant agencies not taking risk, I link to this brand new comment on an old post by John Harte as it’s germane”

Yes, John Harte’s comment definitely is a counterexample to my claim that it’s possible to reliably tell the difference between experiments “so crazy they just might work” and experiments that are just plain crazy.

And yes, Stafford Beer and the other cyberneticians do seem to have been smart creative people from various backgrounds who were on to something. Beer didn’t have any advanced degrees; Ross Ashby was a psychiatrist; Norbert Wiener was a computer scientist/mathematician/philosopher. Among other things, Davies’ book is an attempt to revive interest in them. There was a time when cybernetics seemed like it was going to be the next big thing. Norbert Wiener became a legend at MIT, and Stafford Beer became a pretty prominent management consultant and public intellectual. But in Davies’ telling, cybernetics was outcompeted/killed off by the rise of neoliberal economics.

I have an old post on “Buddy Holly ideas”–scientific ideas that took off initially, but then got killed off/abandoned too soon. Cybernetics probably belongs high on the list of Buddy Holly ideas.

More on cybernetics and ecology in a future post, hopefully. There are some fun connections between cybernetics, and key ecological ideas from the 1960s and 70s. In particular, Norbert Wiener is the “Wiener” (not “Weiner” or “Weaver”) in “Shannon-Wiener diversity index”. And Gardner and Ashby 1970 Nature presents simulation results on stability and complexity of large random matrices, that May (1972) later derived analytically.

@dynamicecology.wordpress.com I really enjoyed reading Gregory Bateson's _Mind and Nature_ and his and Mary Catherine Bateson's _Angels Fear_ many years go, still like dipping into them. The latter in particular has a bit of a "Gödel, Escher, Bach" feel to it ...