mozilla's main problem right now appears to be they just do not recognise that they have pissed users' trust up a wall and now we are suspicious of everything they do.

you cannot, in a position like that, just do things which look dodgy as fuck and expect users to suck it up quietly, whether or not they are as they look.

@dysfun I'm increasingly convinced (note this only works for FOSS) we need Mozilla the organization to die and for the most responsibly maintained Firefox fork to take over in its place. New better designed browsers are of course much better, but we don't have the luxury of waiting for one to be ready while scammy reskinned Chromes claiming to be viable alternatives take over the space and institute Chrome monoculture.

@dalias @dysfun volunteer foss is an extremely ineffective development model for a browser where you really need people with deep expertise who stay with the project long term in a committed manner.

that kind of commitment and experience requirement will naturally yield either grift which doesn't have competence to work on the core (most Firefox forks; avoiding the requirement) or the worst demographics and working environment in open source (see also the Linux kernel)

@dalias @dysfun the only people who can actually get that level of depth in their free time have the amount of free time typical of a ~40 white cis man with a tech job in the global North

browsers also need constant resourcing to deal with chromium having over 10 million dollars in engineering budget and adding spec features where you lose any of your casual userbase if you're late to the party. so you need full time developers, full stop

none of the forks are serious *browser* projects

@leftpaddotpy @dysfun It's my view that less than ideal dynamics about who can devote large amounts of work to the project is a better situation than what we have now, where itself employees who have to answer to clowncar management. I care more about justice for users than justice for contributors. That's not to say it wouldn't be a lot better to have generous funding and diverse team paid to work on it. But there's a critical need for something other than the status quo.
@leftpaddotpy @dysfun I don't see chasing Chrome features as a worthwhile main goal any more than I sae chasing glibc features as a worthwhile musl goal. πŸ™ƒ Rather, fighting back against their proliferation, and for *long term stable* standards, is what we should be doing.

@dalias well sure but it makes you the "open source" person with the "broken" browser complaining about sites not working, and it seems like everyone who has any value for their time (most people who don't use Linux, even computer people!) will go use Chrome instead, because making sites give a damn about 1% of the userbase is wishful thinking

i too use the "broken" operating system. it works for 99% of what i want. people don't put up with 5% broken.

@dalias the reason that having software developed exclusively by unpaid tech bros sucks is that a team of *generic Linux man* will, in the vast majority of cases, not develop usable software for anyone but software people

see: darktable is used by approximately zero professional photographers, with the exact demographic distribution mentioned above; its entire community is self taught amateurs (predominantly engineers), fundamentally leading to the project direction being amiss wrt actual needs

@dalias if you want a serious piece of software that satisfies the needs of anyone but Linux people, developers need to be paid for their time, and the user base *can't* be just Linux weirdos.
@leftpaddotpy I dispute that claim. Are Blender developers paid to develop it? Kdenlive? Game emulators? There's all sorts of software with large numbers of users who aren't "Linux weirdos" or even Linux users, that's FOSS developed mostly or entirely by volunteers. Is this ideal? A just economic system? No. But it's far better than the alternatives we have right now.

@dalias @leftpaddotpy

Are Blender developers paid to develop it?

Yes, actually, they are. https://www.blender.org/about/people/

People β€” blender.org

Home of the Blender project - Free and Open 3D Creation Software

blender.org

@dalias @leftpaddotpy Same goes for Kdenlive but it’s not so instantly obvious on where the money goes or if the devs are paid full-time (I assume they are paid for full-time work). (https://kdenlive.org/en/fund/ and https://kdenlive.org/en/about/)

We will use your donation to support members of the Kdenlive team, helping them continue working on the project to add major features and implement technologies required by the industry, keep the software stable and reliable, and maintain the code base.

Kdenlive Fundraiser - Kdenlive

Kdenlive