I need a new phone but I want to do this right

https://sh.itjust.works/post/24784684

I need a new phone but I want to do this right - sh.itjust.works

(Please when answering, assume I’m not a beginner at privacy/programming :) I know where the good stuff at) First off, shameful confession: I’m writing this on a dying yellow iPhone XR I bought second-hand three years ago (189€). I absolutely love the look of it: the screen, build quality, are all amazing. The only problem was the locked ecosystem (sideloading Spotify/Torrent client was sooo hard). I saw the android phone of my mother dying really fast. She currently has a Xiaomi phone that’s ridiculously big for my hands, there’s advertisements in the stocks apps (?!!), the UX is janky and everything. It looks like a bloat, privacy nightmare. So… because it’s impossible to find a jailbreakable phone nowadays I need to buy an android and ideally I would want: - Good screen (vivid colors) - Good build quality (not shitty plastic) - Don’t care about the camera (I don’t want those ridiculously big cameras they make nowadays) - Would want to install either GrapheneOS/LineageOS The things that scare me off: - I really need my bank app and I need it updated so I have to use Google Play Services but I don’t want it to plague my phone with privacy bullshit (I want to be degoogled) The things that excite me: - Customization possibilities - Learning experience - Even more privacy than a de-googled IOS phone :) - F-Droid!! (Maybe I’ll find a beautiful IRC client) - More choices for Mastodon & Lemmy clients - Freedom of free software. - client for open-source git providers :) But to get all of that, I don’t want Google, I need shitty apps (non-free software) I have to install: - Instagram (for non-technical friends) - GitHub (job & open-source) - No-Ad Modded Spotify from Balatan - Discord (gamer friends) - Telegram (cryptobros friends) - Steam (because I still love gaming) Any advices? Phone ideas? I’m so lost in this ocean of choice (freedom ✨) My current phone: [https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/a11bf993-02f3-49d7-8582-92af6dde5c9e.jpeg] [https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/b11b697f-d40b-4d91-8cbd-ffdda2b241ab.jpeg]

GrapheneOS

Google Pixels are the only options with this one.

No-Ad Modded Spotify from Balatan

Have you tried Spotube? It is a no ads YouTube Music client, that fetches your library from Spotify.

I can’t recommend you a specific device, but can suggest a Bootloader Unlock: Wall of Shame, which can help you choose a device, as you are planning to install a custom ROM, like Lineage. Best of luck with your device search!

Spotube | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository

Lightweight & resource friendly music client

can suggest a Bootloader Unlock: Wall of Shame

Unfortunately it only mentions unlocking. Re-locking the bootloader is just as important, and strictly necessary for Android Verified Boot to work.

Check lineage’s list of supported devices.

Though after 15 years of flashing phones, I’m now on the Pixel train. I love the plastic back on mine. Makes it lighter while also making it stronger. Plastic doesn’t crack like glass or ceramic.

If you use a Pixel, why don’t you go with GrapheneOS? It is much more secure and private than LineageOS.
GrapheneOS: the private and secure mobile OS

GrapheneOS is a security and privacy focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility.

GrapheneOS

Get a Pixel 7 or newer and put Graphene OS on it. Pixels are excellent phones and have good support for custom ROMs. The Pixel 6 has a lot of weird issues that the others don’t have, so avoid it. Graphene is the best ROM for privacy AND security, and it is also relatively user-friendly.

Or, if you want an older phone, try a Pixel 3, 4 or 5. They are good phones with an older design style that may appeal to you.

/e/OS (also known as Murena) is also a good ROM for privacy, and supports a broader range of devices.

Or, if you want an older phone, try a Pixel 3, 4 or 5

These are outdated and don’t get security updates anymore, and thus shouldn’t be used anymore. The Pixel 6a is supported until 2028, the Pixel 8 even gets 7 years of security updates (until 2030), the Pixel 8a and 9 are supported until 2031.

/e/OS (also known as Murena) is also a good ROM for privacy

/e/OS is unfortunately highly insecure and shouldn’t be compared to GrapheneOS or recommended. Graphene is really the better choice here.

They can recieve security updates if you use an alternative ROM such as Lineage or /e/OS.

Can you please explain how e/OS/ is insecure?

They can recieve security updates if you use an alternative ROM such as Lineage or /e/OS.

They can only receive OS updates, but firmware updates are just as important for maintaining the security of a device. These can only be provided by the device manufacturer.

Can you please explain how e/OS/ is insecure?

Sure. It’s based on the already insecure LineageOS, you can read more about that here: madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html#lin…

On top of that, the /e/OS devs don’t release updates in a timely manner, often taking 1-3 months to releases even simple but important Android Security Bulletin patches.

Android | Madaidan's Insecurities

Google phone for Graphene is mandatory therefore not my suggestion.

Lineage should not be your alternative as it is not privacy orientated. Take a look at Divest or /e/. There are many supported devices and in terms of privacy much better than Lineage. But in terms of security it is: Divest >> Lineage > /e/

You can check what devices are supported and which suits your needs best

The Divest developer has close ties to the Graphene team. Also he is pretty determined to be a one man team and some people have complained. Calyx OS might be a better choice as it is maintained by the Calyx Institute.

Google Pixel of some kind.

One of the only phone lineups with easy bootloader unlock, and also the only ones supported by GrapheneOS.

You can also use it as-is if needed without going crazy from ads and notifications everywhere like other brands tend to have.

Pixels are great, but definitely make sure to install GrapheneOS to increase your privacy and security
GrapheneOS: the private and secure mobile OS

GrapheneOS is a security and privacy focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility.

GrapheneOS
wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ and make sure to double-check that unlocking the bootloader isn’t too much bother (ie. read the installation instructions)
Devices | LineageOS Wiki

Lineage IS for MicroG: lineage.microg.org

Also keep in mind that Lineage OS is not designed to relock the bootloader.

LineageOS for microG

Lineage OS is not designed to relock the bootloader.

I don’t understand why so many people worry about that… doesn’t it only ensure that data is wiped if some agent secretly installs a rootkit or sorts on your phone before giving back the device to you?

To me, bootloader locking is mostly a way for phone manufacturers to make it harder to run anything but the ROM they have chosen (and it’s a PITA and the most laborious part of installing a ROM).

It prevents a random guy from picking up your phone and flashing a different (probably more malicious) custom rom
Take a look at Nitro Key. They’re like Yubikey, but they sell pixel phones with a security and privacy focused custom grapheneOS.
They’re really overpriced though. Flashing GrapheneOS is really easy thanks to their Web-based installer, and there are countless tutorials on YouTube.

You sound like the ideal candidate for a refurbished Pixel 7 / 8 from amazon.

Test its hardware thoroughly on the stock os in case you need to return it.

Install GrapheneOS using the Web installer.

Install Droid-ify into your main profile from the f-droid web page. It looks much better than the official f-droid client and actually has a working auto-update

Create a work profile. I use an app called Shelter as the work profile admin app. This allows you to auto freeze your big-tech apps to help with battery life / privacy. Install google services from the built-in GrapheneOS app store.

Enjoy.

Google services shouldn’t even be needed for the apps OP listed above. Instagram works just fine without Google services, just like Discord, Telegram and Steam. I don’t know about GitHub, but there are FOSS alternatives for it on F-Droid. Spotify (xManager) also works just fine.
F-Droid Search: github

Generally agreed, I would actually try using as many services with their progressive web apps.

The main reason I think they may need google services is the banking app. Mine will refuse to launch without google services installed.

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I’ve never seen the point of PWAs. I don’t want a crappy website as an icon on my homescreen, I want a proper native app. If the app is privacy-invasive, I will either find a FOSS alternatives, or isolate it in a separate user profile.

The main reason I think they may need google services is the banking app. Mine will refuse to launch without google services installed.

That’s true, I also need Play services for mine, but I have a special user profile for it.

everyone keeps mentioning Pixel Devices, but I’d personally never use one for the same reason I won’t wear branded clothes

you should check out OnePlus devices, the bootloaders are easily unlocked and they’ve major LineageOS support, the phones also have a high quality build, if you like the form of your XR, definitely check out the OnePlus 8/8 pro or 9/9 pro

another option is if you can get any of the Samsung S10 models with an exynos chip, they also have strong build and are supported by lineageOS as well

You can unlock the bootloader on OnePlus devices, but you can’t re-lock it afterwards, permanently leaving your device in an insecure state. This is a really bad idea, and definitely shouldn’t be recommended.

The S10 came out in 2019 and hasn’t been supported by the manufacturer for a long time, it’s not a good idea either.

And lastly, LineageOS itself is pretty insecure. It is much weaker than stock Android or even iOS. You can read more about this here: madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html#lin…
or here: eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

It also has much worse app compatibility than GrapheneOS, because it doesn’t use the official Google Play services binary (which GrapheneOS puts in a sandbox to restrict its access), except you install it as a system application, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of using a custom ROM in the first place. GrapheneOS is the easiest, best and most secure choice for degoogling.

Android | Madaidan's Insecurities

@hector If you want to tinker with both Linux and Android for your phone, look at this list: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices

There are some devices that can dual boot Android and Linux (the one I know of is OnePlus 6)

Since mainline Linux works on the OnePlus 6, I think there were some efforts to get the latest Android running on it. Ask in the postmarketOS Matrix chat to make sure though

Also surprised people recommending GrapheneOS: https://youtu.be/4To-F6W1NT0

Devices - postmarketOS Wiki

I was going to mention postmarketos if they really wanted to dive headfirst into the degoogled life, lol

@Sarcasmo220 Yeah, I'm a bit surprised people aren't recommending it and other Linux distros, especially when there are few rough edges left. Any rough edges that truly bother you, and you can switch back to LineageOS while keeping an eye on Linux for when it's solved

Andrew Tanenbaum stated that for every 1,000 lines of properly written C code, there is a bug. AOSP is ~500 GB! I don't trust other ROMs besides LineageOS because how do developers of other ROMs audit this?

I want to support the Linux phones, but I feel you would still be required to carry a second Android phone one way or another with just enough things in life unfortunately requiring ‘the app’ with no web alternative. This isn’t really something you can overcome without reverse engineering entire apps—which usually violates some stupid ToS that gets your account banned for using an alternative client. That said, the more these exact apps are requiring no root, no flashing, no unlocked bootloader, the closer we are getting to needing a separate device anyhow. Maybe my next phone will be Linux 🤔

@toastal Yeah, I wanna be able to support them too. I still have the Pinephone Pro just sitting there because of the abysmal battery life

Waydroid has most apps covered. Would you perhaps know of any that aren’t? Drains battery extremely fast though. You can always dual booting into Android (Not sure how that works) at least on the OnePlus 6

A bit unfortunate that devices have varying levels of functionality, but it’s still amazing what people have done so far

A Google Pixel with GrapheneOS is the best thing on the market for privacy and security.

GrapheneOS is a privacy and security-focused operating system, which is based on Android and retains full compatibility with Android apps. There are no Google services by default, but you can install Sandboxed Google Play services, which have much less access to your device, because they are running in the normal Android application sandbox, just like any other app you install, and can be removed at any time. GrapheneOS offers many other cool features, such as a network permission toggle, which lets you revoke internet access from any app (like e.g. the Google Camera app).

I’m glad you already know about F-Droid, because there are so many amazing apps there. After looking at your home screen and the apps you currently use, here are some quick recommendations from me:

  • Before you start using F-Droid, add the IzzyOnDroid repoisitory, as it contains even more awesome apps that can’t be found in the official repo
  • Switch to a better F-Droid client, such as Droid-ify
  • Revolution is the best IRC client I could find on F-Droid, it looks a little older (doesn’t use the newest version of Material Design), but still works very well
  • LibreTorrent is an amazing torrent client
  • AntennaPod is IMO the best podcast app on Android
  • The official Wikipedia app is available on F-Droid: f-droid.org/en/packages/org.wikipedia
  • Element X is a new, rewritten version of the Element client (it’s officially made by the Element team, and you can even try it out on iOS right now)
  • Clock You is a good and modern looking clock/timer/stopwatch/alarm app
  • There are a few Telegram apps on F-Droid. I have found Nekogram X to be the best. If you prefer the experience of the stock Telegram app, you can get Telegram-FOSS from F-Droid.
  • For Signal, you can either use Signal-FOSS (requires a third-party repo), or an improved fork of the app called Molly (you can either get it from Accrescent, which is available in the GrapheneOS App Store), or by adding their custom F-Droid repo. Molly is officially recommended by the GrapheneOS project over the normal Signal app.
  • The official GitHub app works just fine, but you can also try FOSS alternatives from F-Droid such as FastHub-Libre, or OctoDroid.

The other apps you mentioned in your post are not available on F-Droid, but I also have a few recommendations there:

  • xManager for Spotify (it’s a modded, patched version that removes ads)
  • Aliucord for Discord (it removes some of the telemetry and tracking)
  • Instagram and Steam can easily be downloaded from the Google Play Store. You can use Aurora Store, to download apps from Google Play without creating a Google Account.
  • If you only need Steam for the authenticator, there is a way to get the verification codes in a FOSS TOTP authenticator like Aegis, without having to install the Steam app: help.ente.io/auth/migration-guides/steam/
  • You can either use FFUpdate to download the Brave Browser, or use Obtainium to pull the APK from GitHub

Also check out Lawnchair launcher, since I at least find the stock launcher kinda lacking in features and UI/UX.

Feel free to ask me any further questions, either in this thread or via Lemmy DM

GrapheneOS: the private and secure mobile OS

GrapheneOS is a security and privacy focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility.

GrapheneOS
That’s amazing advice thanks :) you’re so knowledgeable about this ecosystem
I’m trying to help out wherever I can :)
Thank you, for all the Alternatives. I love Antenna Pod!!!
I love it too, it’s genuinely the best app for podcasts I’ve ever used
Hey you’re a hero, I have my Pixel Phone since a long time now and it’s so amaziiiing
I’m glad you like it. Consider making a post about your experience so far having switched from iOS to GrapheneOS. The community likes these kinds of posts. Don’t hesitate to use screenshots, etc.
Btw if you’re still looking for an IRC client, check out Goguma. It’s a better, more modern looking alternative to Revolution.
Goguma | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository

An IRC client for mobile devices

Calyx OS, Graphene OS or Lineage OS with MicroG. All of those will work fine for your use case. Just aim to get as many of your apps off of F-droid as possible. F-droid is a marketplace of free software and all apps in the main repo must meet certain requirements.

I would recommend eliminating your non free apps especially the dark pattern ones like Instagram and Discord. These apps are not private and you can’t make them private. They are designed to get you hooked to the point where you can not leave. Also Targeted advertising has its own dark patterns which are harmful on so many levels. I realize it is hard to move but you can be the change you want to see. Maybe make it a long term goal to try to get people to move somewhere else. You can do some research and come up with an alternative.