Democrats Tuned Out Gaza Protests at the DNC. History Won’t Forget.

https://lemmy.world/post/19000239

Democrats Tuned Out Gaza Protests at the DNC. History Won’t Forget. - Lemmy.World

As Vice President Kamala Harris received the presidential nomination at the 2024 Democratic National Convention (DNC), thousands of people marched near the convention demanding an end to U.S. arms shipments to Israel and the war on Gaza. The protesters, led by Palestinian and Jewish activists, represented a diverse coalition including anti-war veterans, climate justice activists, and labor organizers. Despite efforts by Democrats to keep the Palestine issue sidelined, the marchers made their voices heard, declaring Harris and President Joe Biden complicit in the genocide in Gaza. The protesters came from communities and movements that are often considered part of the Democratic coalition, warning that their votes could not be taken for granted unless the party takes concrete action to end the occupation and devastation in Palestine. Organizers estimate around 30,000 people demonstrated in Chicago over the course of the week, making Palestine impossible to ignore during the convention. The activists drew connections between the struggle for Palestinian liberation and the fight against racist violence and state repression in the U.S., challenging the Democratic Party’s complicity in both. The protests encountered a heavy police presence, with hundreds of riot police surrounding the march at all times. Despite the tension, the demonstration remained largely peaceful as the protesters demanded justice for Palestine. As Kamala Harris prepared to take the stage, the marchers continued their chants and songs, determined to keep the spotlight on the ongoing catastrophe in Gaza and the Democratic Party’s failure to address it.

These protests make little sense to me. I fully support the goals of the protesters. I am opposed to Israel’s actions in Gaza that are clearly aimed at a Palestinian genocide. However, I don’t see how these protests are supposed to help achieve the goal of ending the violence and suffering of the Palestinian people. In fact, if they do anything at all, they will only help Trump get elected.

These protesters should be going after every member of congress that has supported the continued shipment of weapons to Israel, republican and democrat alike, but where have they been? They should have been out supporting democrats like Jamaal Bowman who lost his primary to a moderate, pro-Israel democrat because of AIPAC. AIPAC who has spent more than $15 million dollars this season to try and unseat progressive democrats who have supported their cause. These protesters should have been out protesting AIPAC but haven’t heard a peep from them.

Now, here they are harassing the only presidential candidate on the ballot that might possibly support them if she wins, but who cannot say that now because if she does, AIPAC will drop $10s of millions of dollars to oppose her and potentially cost her the election. And that is the only thing these protests can accomplish. If protesters succeed in turning voters against Harris, where are those votes going to go? Either to a man who has stated that he fully supports Israel’s actions and that he just wants them to hurry up and get it done, or to a third party candidate who cannot possibly win but could siphon enough votes from Harris so that Trump could win anyway.

I can’t help but think that these well meaning protesters are being manipulated by the powers that be to undermine their own goals. Stop attacking democrats in general and start supporting progressives who support your cause.

I said roughly the same thing, while pointing out that the OP has pushed anti voting agenda in the past and got my comment removed (I did use the word idiot). The mods are not allowing discourse here.
Meh, it’s rule three. You can say that OP’s ideas are idiotic, but you can’t say OP is an idiot. They are allowing discourse but not ad hominem attacks. It’s really a good thing for the level of discourse in a sub.
Fair enough. I didn’t call the OP an idiot, but suggested that if they believe not voting will help the Palestinians they were an idiot. But I’ll refrain in the future.

We can see your comment/post history. It is clear that you are either a Russian/Chinese/North Korean/MAGA troll attempting election interference or an idiot who thinks not voting is the solution to all of America’s problems. The argument that not voting will somehow help the Palestinians is mind numbing at best and horrifying at worst. Trump will green light the total destruction on Gaza. I also failed to see anything here about Trump’s phone call preventing a ceasefire. He will pull funding from Ukraine, who also needs help in their struggle against genocide as well. Is it worth the paycheck to spread this bullshit? Or are you really that ignorant? by

@UnpopularCrow

you called me a Russian/Chinese/North Korean/MAGA troll

you labeled me just like cops like to do without having any facts that was why you were banned

you are the one playing out the narrative the elites want the one that divides citizens but bitching and lying about your actions when you are called out just like both parties do especially Trump

People are wired to look for patterns in randomness and meaning in irrationality. Something considering the irrationality of your post at the very very very very bottom of all the other posts. Leaves you significantly unqualified to really complain about this.

That said I believe that you are genuine. For all the good that means. In this day and age of generative ai. If paid opposition was ever really that widespread. It isn’t today. And while you aren’t a magat either. You’d never acknowledge just how much like them you were behaving. I genuinely believe that you’re probably a decent person as are most magats. I just wish I could believe that either group might wake up and understand how counterproductive their behavior is. Often hurting the very thing they advocate for. And start to question who that sort of behavior actually helps. Because it isn’t either one of the issues either group obsesses over.

You also accused OP of being a troll. Which is also now allowed.

Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, even if they have a history of that, doesn’t make them a troll.

I means they have different opinions than you. And that’s ok. You don’t have to get personal and accuse people of stuff though.

My comment wasn’t based on our differing opinions, but rather the OP’s post/comment history. However name calling isn’t cool and as I said in a reply a few hours back, I’ll refrain from that in the future.

I respect you for giving me this update, thank you!

I get called names on here daily, and people look up my post/comment history as well, so I know what it’s like to be on the receiving end. Many times, it really is just a person with different opinions and viewpoints instead of a troll.

We’re all gonna make it, friend.

Appreciate it. I got called out for being disrespectful. I was and I will improve. That’s my goal as a human.

I was and I will improve. That’s my goal as a human.

Mine as well! And if enough of us stay on this journey, we can inspire others to do the same.

And we can keep this place from becoming like Reddit! (shudder)

Great post and you are 100 percent correct!

got my comment removed (I did use the word idiot). The mods are not allowing discourse here.

They ARE allowing discourse tho. They are NOT allowing insults tho.

Do you really have to insult someone when you’re advocating your point?

You can have your opinion, post it and not use the word “idiot” or result to namecalling. Try it!

The mods are not allowing discourse here.

Check the modlog for what pro-genocide centrists (there will never be another kind of centrist) consider “discourse.”

Agreed. I was in clear violation of Rule 3. The mods did the right thing as I deserved the delete.
Anyone who checks the modlog can see that you didn’t just call him an idiot.
The better alternative is to abandon the duopoly completely

The better alternative is to abandon the duopoly completely

Third party is the way to go! We have other choices, friends!

After listening to her Nuremberg rally level acceptance speech the other night, I can’t see how anyone in good conscious could cast a vote for that. They’re willing to embrace full fledged right wing authoritarianism, nationalism, imperialism, well funded police state, as long as its team blue doing it.

If someone were to read a transcript of her speech and was asked if there was Trump speaking, or if it was Harris speaking, I would stand to guess that a majority of people would default to Trump.

Yep, between some of her speeches and the replies I get here on Lemmy, I’m amazed at how Democrats often believe they are so much better than Republicans—even though they engage in the exact same types of behavior!
They will refuse to acknowledge it, but they are just as big a victim of US propaganda as Republicans.
That’s a terrible comparison because Trump is so incoherent and long-winded. But, you’re asking random Americans, who maybe think he’s charismatic. Personally I’m voting against trunk and for Harris. The consequences will be dire if that guy wins.

Absolutely. I 100% agree with their goals. But it’s like they couldn’t be making worse decisions. Whoever is setting their agenda. It’s like they’re focusing on sewing chaos and discontent. And not actually getting what they say they want.

I believe the protesters are sincere. But screaming at presidential candidates was never a good idea. Harris or trump will 100% be the winners. Trump will absolutely be worse. So any sane uncommitted protestor can’t actually be uncommitted. And those that are truly uncommitted aren’t really reachable. It’s not a position of strength to negotiate from.

Pro Palestinian voters would have had more success supporting senate and house candidates that support their goals. We actually lost two by slim margins. What’s the logic of focusing on nationwide elections that are the most expensive and hardest to influence. As opposed to simple Statewide or District elections. Which are much cheaper, and have a much smaller voter base to influence. It’s the house after all that passes and funds the aid they wish to stop. Nothing about this is logical. Well unless the goal really is to so chaos and Division among the opponents of Republicans.

My question to the people withholding their vote because of Gaza is: what is your plan to support the Palestinian people when Trump gets in?

Some of us aren’t “witholding” our vote at all.

I’m voting third party. Because I believe in the party I’m voting for.

Depending on which state you live in, a 3rd party vote is equivalent to a vote for Trump when everything is said and done.

a 3rd party vote is equivalent to a vote for Trump

A third-party vote is a vote for the candidate I believe in, not an automatic vote for Trump or anyone else.

My voting reflects my values, and I’m not driven by fear of an outcome.

Yeah. Unfortunately, people who love genocide want the guy who bombed the fuck out of Yemen to take over next year. It’s tough to read those guys urging others to take the same position and pretending it is normal.
I’ll stand proud that I didn’t vote for the people who were already complicit in genocide
Fat load of good that’ll do for the remaining Palestinians after Trump helps Netenyahu finish the job. Why would you be proud of such a monstrous thing?

Yes, I’m “monstrous”, but not the Democrats who have happily supplied Israel with weapons to commit their genocide.

Your moral compass is broken.

Never said they weren’t, but you’re helping the even more monstrous Republicans nuke Palestine. Your moral compass is missing.

Who is going to nuke Palestine? That’s pure speculation.

Meanwhile, the current administration is ACTUALLY actively helping Israel starve, maim, and kill children

GOP Rep. Tim Walberg suggests Gaza should be handled 'like Nagasaki and Hiroshima'

Rep. Tim Walberg, R-Mich., said this week that the conflict in Gaza should be over quickly "like Nagasaki and Hiroshima."

NBC News
OK again, it’s pure speculation. First, that’s a Senator, who doesn’t even have the authority to use nuclear weapons. Second, the Democrats have shown that they love Netanyahu and will do whatever he wants. If he calls for nukes, maybe a Harris administration will consider it. After all, the party all enthusiastically clapped for the genocide

Sounds like speculation to me. On the other hand, Trump said Netenyahu to finish the job, and called him as a private citizen to tell him not to agree to the Democrats ceasefire because it would help the Harris campaign.

You need to consider actually learning about what’s going on instead of clutching your pearls over politically impotent purity tests. Gaza is a wildly complicated geopolitical situation, as the top comment pointed out. You just come across as naive and uninformed.

I’m sorry what’s speculation on my part???

Second, Trump said that? Oh yeah, he means whatever he says all the time. He never lies, he never talks out of his ass, he ever makes promises he won’t keep

Meanwhile, the current administration has failed to act at every “red line” crossed by Israel and continues to ACTUALLY SUPPLY Israel with weapons to continue its genocide.

Sorry that my “purity test” is “no complicity in killing children”.

And I’m sorry to see you feel that killing children is “a complicated situation”.

the Democrats have shown that they love Netanyahu and will do whatever he wants. If he calls for nukes, maybe a Harris administration will consider it.

Speculation.

Second, Trump said that? Oh yeah, he means whatever he says all the time. He never lies, he never talks out of his ass, he ever makes promises he won’t keep

The mental gymnastics here is too much for me to believe you’re sincerely suggesting this excuse. The Republicans are far more favorable to Netenyahu. To suggest otherwise is laughably out of touch.

Meanwhile, the current administration has failed to act at every “red line” crossed by Israel and continues to ACTUALLY SUPPLY Israel with weapons to continue its genocide.

Say you didn’t read the to comment without saying it. 1, that stuff is appropriated by Congress, the administration legally cannot deny supplying what was voted on. Legally, Israel is our ally, and our actions are limited, unless you prefer that American hegemony was entirely unchecked and the President could just do whatever they want regardless of how Congress votes? Maybe if leftists voted lesser evil instead of clutching their pearls, we’d have a Congress that would change things by now, but at least you get to be proud of inaction as the world passes you by. 2, as noted above, AIPAC is a powerful force in our elections, and there are more Zionists in this country than you think; this should be the case, it’s terrible, but it’s true and pretending it isn’t relevant does not achieve useful goals. A hard-line stance at this point will mobilize them and possibly cost Dems the election. 3, as noted above, Republicans would be objectively worse for Gaza, they’re open about that fact. The administration has been trying to broker a ceasefire for months, Trump has personally taken action to sabotage that same ceasefire.

Long term, the best strategy is voting Dem and applying pressure immediately after the election, when they can safely take action. Voting Republican is the worst strategy if you care about Palestinians; not voting is the second worst strategy, and ultimately achieves the same thing. When you can understand why careful deliberate action is necessary in complex and delicate political situations, you will be mature enough to have a potentially valuable opinion on geopolitics. If you think abstention is ever an effective strategy, then you are not yet mature.

Long term, the best strategy is voting Dem and applying pressure immediately after the election, when they can safely take action.

Actually, the best strategy is to tell people you won’t vote for genocide before the election. Whether you do end up voting or not is immaterial to the pressure that can be applied when the party is at its most influencable, but telling people to wait until after the election to try and move the party is telling them to wait until their influence is at its minimum.

Nope. That validates progressives not voting, which can convince the progressive you’re talking to to not vote, which results in a Republican victory and more support for Netenyahu. That strategy hurts Gaza, we’ve been over this. It’s like you totally ignored all the logic in favor of repeating the same geopolitically ignorant taking points you’ve been fed by right-wing stooges trying to sabotage the neoliberal party in favor of the fascists.

Sorry I don’t feel represented by a political party that aids and abets genocide. Democrats have a chance to earn my vote and continue to squander it.

The logic is that if the party doesn’t have an incentive to change then it won’t.

Totally irrational. It’s not about who represents you most, they aren’t on the ballot. It’s about which of the two represents you more than the other. What incentive does the party have to sabotage their races (AIPAC influence is real) to court an uninformed bloc that’s unlikely to vote in the first place? Your abstinence is not incentive, no logic whatsoever.

It’s not about who represents you most, they aren’t on the ballot.

I already know America is not a democracy, that’s why I don’t feel the need to vote in support of a corrupt system.

What incentive does the party have to sabotage their races (AIPAC influence is real) to court an uninformed bloc that’s unlikely to vote in the first place?

Depends, do they need our votes to win the election or not?

If they need our votes, they should start acting like they’re trying to earn them.

If they don’t think they need our votes, then they don’t have to represent us. And since they don’t represent us, we shouldn’t vote for them.

Totally irrational. Your abstinence is not incentive, no logic whatsoever.

It’s perfectly logical, you just don’t like the conclusion that the logic points towards, because it betrays the party leadership as being self-interested, cynical, and willing to aid and abett genocide.

I don’t feel the need to vote in support of a corrupt system.

Do you… do you think that if enough people don’t vote that the government will say “Shucks, guess we have to redo the election with better candidates”? If only one person in the whole country does, they decide the winner. You gain absolutely nothing by not voting, all you’re doing is shifting power to those who disagree with you the most. This is just plain idiotic.

If they need our votes, they should start acting like they’re trying to earn them.

They need enough votes. If they think pandering to your demographic will cost them other demographics, they will not pander to you. Despite your claims, America is a democratic republic, granted with it’s own peculiarities in determining electrical votes. The candidate who wins the most votes wins the state. You will be left in the dust as irrelevant noise in the flood of people who know how to use their vote, and you will get zero representation. Congratulations.

It’s perfectly logical, you just don’t like the conclusion that the logic points towards, because it betrays the party leadership as being self-interested, cynical, and willing to aid and abet genocide to preserve their bloody campaign funding.

Nope, there is no logic. It’s based on nonsense feelings with no correspondence to the functional mechanism of our elections. Abstinence has no effect, and in fact will probably push the party farther right to scoop moderates because they actually vote. Congratulations.

do you think that if enough people don’t vote that the government will say “Shucks, guess we have to redo the election with better candidates”?

I wish. A sane electoral system would declare a redo if the abstains win. No, I simply don’t consider how other people will be voting to be a factor. I’ll base my decision not on the promises they make, but the ones they have already fulfilled.

You gain absolutely nothing by not voting, all you’re doing is shifting power to those who disagree with you the most.

What I gain from not-voting is a clear conscience.

And if I’m the deciding vote in my solid-blue state then power has already shifted so far that my one vote won’t hold it back for long.

This is just plain idiotic.

The only idiotic part is how much time you’re wasting trying to convince a disillusioned old anarchist to pick between the negative peace that is a false promise of a “reasonable” politician and an increasingly demented madman who stands out as the greatest living example for why the management of our lives can’t be trusted to a political party.

They need enough votes. If they think pandering to your demographic will cost them other demographics, they will not pander to you.

Then they should stop pretending I’m on their side. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

Despite your claims, America is a democratic republic, granted with it’s own peculiarities in determining electoral votes. The candidate who wins the most votes wins the state. You will be left in the dust as irrelevant noise in the flood of people who know how to use their vote, and you will get zero representation. Congratulations.

Make up your mind, is it “democratic” or does everyone’s vote not count?

Abstinence has no effect, and in fact will probably push the party farther right to scoop moderates because they actually vote. Congratulations.

Of course, they were going to do that anyway, especially if we live in the good timeline where the Republican party collapses under the weight of its impending electoral failure. Democrats keep triangulating towards the right to pick up the mythical “moderate” and become the new right-wing party while some new party starts to push them from the left. Probably the greens since they’ve already got a decent following.

I’ll base my decision not on the promises they make, but the ones they have already fulfilled.

Not sure what promises the Harris administration have fulfilled, since it hasn’t existed yet.

how much time you’re wasting trying to convince a disillusioned old anarchist

That might be a point if I was trying to convince a disillusioned old anarchist. What I’m actually doing is publicly debunking your public nonsense so that impressionable onlookers in swing states don’t try to emulate that nonsense.

Make up your mind, is it “democratic” or does everyone’s vote not count?

Votes count. Non-votes don’t. There is no conflict in logic here.

Democrats will keep triangulating towards the right to pick up the mythical “moderate” and become the new right-wing party while some new group starts to pick up the pieces on the Left. Probably the greens.

All the more reason to entice them further left now so that the future landscape, in the good timeline, rests further left. I’m all for that future, and want it to start off as far left as possible.

All the more reason to entice them further left now so that the future landscape, in the good timeline, rests further left. I’m all for that future, and want it to start off as far left as possible.

And how, precisely, is a promise that they don’t have to move further left to earn your vote supposed to entice them into anything?

It’s a convenient wedge issue because although no one disagrees, and Harris is the clear choice, people are very upset about it. That allows the topic to steer people away from reason and into raw emotion. That in turn allows the conversation to become a way to subvert the topic into a general negative sentiment that plants itself association with Harris.

It’s a good manipulation tactic, and you can observe that any dissent turns into a pithy back and forth quickly. That’s going to leave it in the conversation for good. Because we’ll get upset every time it comes up.

It’s a very cynical, awful thing to do. To take the genocide of a helpless people and only serve it when convenient as a wedge issue. But it works, so here we are, talking about them but only when people want to take pot shots at specific politicians.