Mastodawn

Prof. Sam Lawler Aug 23, 2024

I did a calculation yesterday that made me want to scream. If you look at the *current* density of satellites in 1km altitude bins in Low Earth Orbit, and assume they are travelling at circular velocities (generally true), then Starlink satellites pass within <1km of each other EVERY 30 SECONDS.

At Starlink altitudes, everything is travelling at 7 km/second, so <1 km close approaches are terrifyingly close. Every 30 seconds. WHY.

@[email protected]Aug 23, 2024

@sundogplanets Because dipshits want to have uninterrupted, high-speed, low-latency internet at all times rather than working on software that do not need that.

@pettter @sundogplanets

...and they could have high speed internet anyway via cables, wireless ground links etc.

@FediThing @pettter @sundogplanets not really, even in the US decades of corruption still leave huge areas of the country with no ISP available outside of dialup or sat. (prestarlink hughesnet was the major provider with their $150/m <1mbit service). There's still large areas that don't have even basic DSL yet, it's taken so long cell and sat are the norm in many areas. Step 1 if you want cables in the US is to break up verizon/at&t who were paid but never actually rolled out the infrastructure.

That sounds more like a regulatory problem in the US than a technical one?

Atz Aug 23, 2024

It's still a problem.

And before you say "well fix the regulatory problem" I'd like to introduce you to the US government and NIMBY voters who think 5G is a mind control device being used by the illuminati.

Insufficient Entropy Aug 23, 2024

@atzanteol @FediThing regulatory hurdles aside it is a hard problem, especially if you want mobile access (e.g. boats & trucks). Yes there are probably other solutions than satellites, but each satellite sees 2.9 million square miles, how much infrastructure/client end devices/fibre do you need to cover 2.9 million square miles? Meta looked at high altitude balloons, probably the obvious alternative but they bring different collision & debris risks.

@Insufficient_entropy @atzanteol

Boats and trucks in rural areas don't need high speed internet though?

Also, filling the whole Earth's orbit with dangerous space junk so that people can have faster internet in American rural areas seems a bad trade-off?

Cassandrich Aug 23, 2024

@FediThing @Insufficient_entropy @atzanteol Yes people who live or work in remote places do need/deserve the same access to modern telecommunications (including video call, ability to get out live video of emergency situations, etc.) as everyone else has.

"They don't need high-speed internet" is not a reasonable position unless you like keeping some people disempowered.

@dalias @Insufficient_entropy @atzanteol

You're using quotation marks on something I didn't say? I said no no one needs high speed internet *on boats and trucks* in rural areas. What kind of situation would mean you need high speed internet on a boat?

Also, haven't ever seen emergency services saying they need high quality video streams. Almost always it's nature of emergency and exact location, which is totally doable by ordinary phone lines and 2G/3G internet. They need to know where to send help and give basic instructions in the meantime.

Cassandrich Aug 23, 2024

@FediThing @Insufficient_entropy @atzanteol People operate trucks and boats in remote places.

@dalias @Insufficient_entropy @atzanteol

You don't need high speed internet to operate a boat or truck.

Insufficient Entropy Aug 23, 2024

@FediThing @dalias @atzanteol you don't need electricity or vaccines, or beer. Most cruise and container ships already have Internet, heck I know an IT person who works from their yacht using Starlink allowing them to work from literally anywhere (regulatory restrictions aside). In the future there are no mobile dead zones, no failed emergency calls (as long as you can see the sky). If we get to autonomous ships or want to do emergency medical care on a container ship I imagine broadband may be useful.

@Insufficient_entropy @dalias @atzanteol

"I know an IT person who works from their yacht using Starlink allowing them to work from literally anywhere"

You're saying we should be filling the entire Earth's useful orbits with dangerous satellite-destroying junk so that IT people in the rural USA can work from their yachts?

Have you lost all sense of perspective and morality?

"no failed emergency calls"

That is nothing to do with high speed internet. Calls can already be done with normal phones and satellite phones and radios.

The Titanic sent its position by radio in 1912.

Cassandrich Aug 24, 2024

@FediThing @Insufficient_entropy @atzanteol No. That we should accept the need and deploy ways to make it happen without filling orbits with satellites. This is not a terribly hard problem.

@dalias @Insufficient_entropy @atzanteol

The "need" to let people work on their yachts?

What kind of work needs high speed internet anyway? I've worked in rural areas using 3G speeds.

"ways to make it happen without filling orbits with satellites."

...yes, by using ground-based internet, conventional radio, mobile phones etc wherever possible, and existing pre-Musk satellite phone services for emergencies.

Cassandrich Aug 24, 2024

@FediThing @Insufficient_entropy @atzanteol The yachts shouldn't exist but there is an equivalent need for telecommunications from ships that do have legitimate purposes.

@dalias @Insufficient_entropy @atzanteol

Ships already have telecommunications though, they have done for a long time.