.:\dGh/:.Aug 19, 2024

I really, really fucking hate people using "Laravel {package-name}" for their packages when #TaylorOtwell said that you shouldn't.

If you have a package, use "My Package for Laravel". That's it.

It's fucking weird finding a package that you think is "official" when it's not.

#PHP #Laravel #Programming #Software #WebDevelopment #SoftwareDevelopment #Development #Technology

Show threadBen RamseyAug 20, 2024
@darkghosthunter PHP gave up trying to enforce this same rule years ago.
Show thread.:\dGh/:.Aug 20, 2024
@ramsey for extensions? Or composer packages?
Show threadBen RamseyAug 20, 2024
@darkghosthunter For anything
Show threadBen RamseyAug 20, 2024
@darkghosthunter It probably doesn’t seem like such an issue now, but long before dependency managers like Composer, most software written in PHP was distributed in zipped packages, and they were full applications that you’d unzip into the web root and run. Lots of them used names with PHP in them. Some still survive, like phpMyAdmin. None of them were official, but with PHP as part of the name, users thought they were maintained by the PHP project.
Show threadBen RamseyAug 20, 2024
@darkghosthunter There are some similar problems today with the “official” PHP Docker images, which neither the PHP project nor the company Docker maintain.
Show thread.:\dGh/:.Aug 20, 2024

@ramsey I have no problem with having a library that has PHP on its name like “Async for PHP”. Just don’t blame it “PHP Async” or else.

Eventually somebody will have a big problem and sue the wrong person/company. Sometimes shit must happen to change.

Show threadBen RamseyAug 20, 2024
@darkghosthunter Good luck suing PHP. There’s no entity to sue! 🤣
Show thread.:\dGh/:.
@ramsey Lol I mean, a guy having a library with a name that sounds like maintained officially when it's not.
Aug 20, 2024 at 1:55amWeb
Show threadBen RamseyAug 20, 2024
@darkghosthunter Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying someone might try to sue PHP over problems from a package that sounds like it’s official because of its name.
Show thread.:\dGh/:.Aug 20, 2024

@ramsey Yeah, it's kind of silly. I highly doubt it's going to happen with Laravel, but at some point someone will say "This uses a trademarked name as title, and assumes is associated to the trademark owner".

That's (partially) why I used Laragear for my packages instead of using "Laravel Passkeys" or "Laravel Subscriptions".

Show threadBen RamseyAug 20, 2024
@darkghosthunter This is a bit harder with open source projects like PHP, since there’s no one to own or enforce the trademark. However, with Laravel, that’s IP that Taylor’s company owns, and they have the right and the legal obligation to protect their mark to avoid it falling into common use and confusing consumers.
Show threadMaurício M. Fauth Sep 14, 2024
@ramsey @darkghosthunter
Wouldn't be the case of PHP Foundation to own the PHP trademark? For example, the trademark for phpMyAdmin is owned by the Software Freedom Conservancy.
Show threadBen RamseySep 14, 2024
@mauriciofauth @darkghosthunter As far as I know, they do not own any of the PHP project assets.
Show threadMaurício M. Fauth Sep 14, 2024
@ramsey @darkghosthunter
Interesting. That made me think... Who owns the php.net domain?
Show threadBen RamseySep 14, 2024

@mauriciofauth @darkghosthunter I think @derickr might be able to answer who owns the domain.

The logo is by Colin Viebrock. https://www.php.net/download-logos.php

The elePHPant design is by Vincent Pontier. https://www.php.net/elephpant.php

PHP: Download Logos

PHP is a popular general-purpose scripting language that powers everything from your blog to the most popular websites in the world.

Show thread.:\dGh/:.Sep 14, 2024

@ramsey @mauriciofauth @derickr that’s a rabbit hole im eager to drop into.

Theoretically, the PHP Foundation should be the owners of the trademarks and domains. I guess these people are associated with the foundation, but eventually things should be owned by the foundation.

It’s like Kernel.org being owned by Sarah Sharp.

Show threadBen RamseySep 14, 2024
@darkghosthunter @mauriciofauth @derickr It’s complicated.
Show threadDerick RethansSep 14, 2024
@ramsey @mauriciofauth @darkghosthunter AFAIK it's @rasmus who owns the domain. I also think at some point there was a trademark, maybe @jimw knows that.
Show threadMaurício M. Fauth Sep 14, 2024
@derickr @ramsey @darkghosthunter @rasmus @jimw
I think the foundation must prepare itself to own the domain, because, long live Rasmus, but there will come a time when he will not be able to renew or transfer the domain.
Show threadLarry GarfieldSep 14, 2024

@mauriciofauth @derickr @ramsey @darkghosthunter @rasmus @jimw I think the foundation has proven itself well enough that we should be looking into how to gradually transition the foundation into replacing "the loose amalgam of people that somehow manage to get things done and by the grace of God haven't been sued."

Trademark, domain, ops, marketing, etc. Real legal entities are a necessary component of major economic activity.

Show threadyour auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦Sep 14, 2024
@Crell @mauriciofauth @derickr @ramsey @darkghosthunter @rasmus @jimw y’all have blown my mind with this convo. i can't wrap my head around the fact PHP is being managed like it's someone's hobby. wow.
Show threadJim WinsteadSep 14, 2024
@Crell @mauriciofauth @derickr @ramsey @darkghosthunter @rasmus I agree that the Foundation is probably it, but they have a ways to go on governance and transparency.
Show threadJim WinsteadSep 14, 2024

@derickr @ramsey @mauriciofauth @darkghosthunter @rasmus Almost positive there’s never been action around a trademark. Rasmus probably controls the domain name, maybe the folks at EasyDNS have been picking up the tab.

This is one of those questions I’d been working towards.