Niche Distro Users: Why?

https://lemmy.ml/post/19129586

Niche Distro Users: Why? - Lemmy

I occasionally see love for niche small distros, instead of the major ones… And it just seems to me like there’s more hurdles than help when it comes to adopting an OS whose users number in the hundreds or dozens. I can understand trying one for fun in a VM, but I prefer sticking to the bigger distros for my daily drivers since the they’ll support more software and not be reliant on upstream sources, and any bugs or other issues are more likely to be documented abd have workarounds/fixes. So: What distro do you daily drive and why? What drove you to choose it?

Why? Why not?

Currently running Debian Stable, but in the process of switching over to Alpine (yes, Alpine on the desktop). The lightweight, stripped-down feel calls to me and I like the little BSD-isms thrown in. musl might present problems down the road, but a lot can be bypassed by using flatpaks. Also using the change as incentive to try out Wayland and LabWC (bringing back that Openbox goodness). Kinda enjoying the process of piecing stuff together rather than trying to pare it down afterwards.

Kinda enjoying the process of piecing stuff

At the risk of sounding crazy… You might enjoy Linux From Scratch (LFS) and Beyond Linux From Scratch (BLFS). Maybe not as a daily driver, but it’s a great way to learn how everything works, since (as the name suggests) you build everything from scratch. No package manager, just tarballs of source code. It really helps with getting an understanding of how everything works.

BLFS even includes instructions for building Xorg and all the major desktop environments.

Stage 1 Gentoo installs
I wonder if it would be possible to set up Linux From Scratch in a way so that its file structure is compatible with one of the KISS distros like Arch or Slackware, then install their package manager and turn it into a system you can update and maintain.
Otherwise I feel like it’s a bit pointless to put so much work into a system that can’t be kept secure, unless you run it disconnected from the internet.
The challenge would be convincing / teaching the package manager what you already have installed.
I really like immutable distros, and am currently using NixOS. I feel like despite still being relatively obscure, NixOS is a bit of an outlier since it has more packages than any other distro and is (so far) the only distro I’ve used that has never broken. There is a steep learning curve, and I certainly wouldn’t recommend it for non programmers, but it is something truly different than all mainstream Linux distros while being extremely reliable.
Graphs - Repology

Multiple package repositories analyzer

I probably should try NixOS, but I’m tempted by BlendOS

Generally, those people are experienced users that know exactly what they want out of a distro and don’t really need help for anything. Those distros usually do a few things that the user is seeking.

For example, for some people, typing their thesis in LaTeX using emacs is the better workflow. To any average person that sounds insane when Microsoft Word is so easy to use and does the job just fine. But they enjoy it, it works for them, paper gets written, everyone is happy.

Distributions are a spectrum between novice users and expert users. Some people want to put the USB in and be good to go. Some people want a very precise setup for very specific needs.

You may ask, why not start with Ubuntu/Mint/Pop and remove what you don’t like? Well, it’s much easier to start with a blank slate than making one by chopping everything out. For my particular use case, I moved to Arch in big part because I got tired of the mainstream distros getting in my way, and wanted to start the other way around and only install and configure what I want, the way I want it. So Arch for me.

I know experienced users that really don’t care about messing around and are happy with how it runs out of the box and are happy with the development environment provided by something like Ubuntu/Fedora.

And then there’s my box which is a NAS, a workstation, a media PC for the TV, a build server, and a few other things, and it’s all dynamically reassignable. Friend can pick up the controller in the TV room and a GPU gets assigned to it and starts up Steam in Deck mode on the TV, while I can still do my stuff and game on the workstation side for local multiplayer. If the game needs a server, no worries, it’s a kube node, I can temporarily transfer the server locally and back on one of my real servers. Guest needs a PC? Sure, take this monitor and this keyboard, here’s an ephemeral Windows install. Sure, I could probably twist Ubuntu into doing all that, but it’s one hell of a lot easier starting from scratch.

Would you explain better you set-up? At least a reference to the underlaying system. Is it kubernetes?

It’s a Threadripper system which effectively behaves like two CPUs and loads of coree, two GPUs, one dedicated to my desk for the monitors, and the other one can be reassigned freely with VFIO to be a few different things. The TV is connected to that GPU. Storage is all ZFS.

  • One VM is a kube node to run stuff on that GPU
  • One VM is the media center / gaming stuff
  • Technically I have a Windows and Mac VM too but I practically never use them.

When the second GPU isn’t attached to a VM, I can also use it on the host with DRI_PRIME. The host is also a kube node, so I can also run some (modest) AI stuff there too.

The rest is random glue scripts like detecting when the controller connects and shuffling VMs around on that signal. The kube stuff is brand new, half the things are just regular docker compose files still.

I’m looking into trying out kubevirt and see where that goes. The GUI is the only thing left that’s relatively normal on the host and I’d very much like to make that a container and split things up in sort of “activities” so the browser is its own thing, each project is its own thing so I don’t npm install a rat.

Weird someone has a similar setup to mine, its almost exactly the same (one nvidia one amd? Cause that’d be scary).

Feel like its overkill for most folks though lmao

All AMD, RX 570 and Vega 64.

It’s not that rare, I know someone on IRC that’s also doing something similar. I stole the kubevirt idea from him.

I originally built that box to be a VM powerhouse for development, and VFIO was an explicit feature I wanted, that was right before Proton became good and made it unnecessary.

Not sure if niche, but I use Arco Linux instead of the alternatives like Endeavour, Manjaro, or plain arch.

Why? Its easier to setup than straight Arch. Manjaro was all over the place when I tried it a few years back. Arco, right from the ISO stage, let’s you configure exactly what you want, with a handy guide on their website.

But the thing that keeps me loyal is the excellent community. The maintainer himself responds to most of your queries on telegram / discord (not FOSS reeee) and he’s very active on YouTube as well with no nonsense guides and walkthroughs. Shoutout Eric Dubois

Yeah, Erik Dubois and his YT channel were probably the main reasons I stuck with ArcoLinux for as long as I did, even if I did some hopping and eventually ended up on Fedora (I needed a static release)

I daily drive secureblue; or, to be more precise, its bluefin-main-userns-hardened image.

“Why?”, you ask. Because security is my number one priority.

I dismiss other often mentioned hardened systems for the following reasons:

  • Qubes OS; my laptop doesn’t satisfy its hardware requirements. Otherwise, this would have been my daily driver.
  • Kicksecure; primary reason would be how it’s dependent on backports for security updates.
  • Tails; while excellent for protection against forensics, its security model is far from impressive otherwise. It’s not really meant as a daily driver for general use anyways.
  • Spectrum OS; heavily inspired by Qubes OS and NixOS, which is a big W. Unfortunately, it’s not ready yet.
secureblue

secureblue has 4 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

GitHub
Very interesting had not heard of this one yet. What are the main advantages of using this, that make it more secure?

What are the main advantages of using this, that make it more secure?

More secure compared to your average distro? Or more secure compared to a specific set of distros? Unless, this is properly specified, this comment could become very unwieldy 😅.

Thanks in advance for specifying!

Sorry, it was a badly formatted question I wrote whilst commuting earlier… I ended up looking the project up to look into the details, seems very promising! I’ll soon be booting Linux on a work laptop and think secureblue might be a very strong contender for this 💪
I use Linux since 1999 and I’m with you, I don’t like niche distros. I like them to be well supported with many devs in them, and a structure around them. My days of tinkering died already in 2002 (I’m looking at you Gentoo and sia). Since then, I want things to work the way I expect them. That’s why I now use Debian or Mint.

I’m like you, started Linux with v0.99, downloading on floppies at university, installing on 486, installing X11, drivers, etc. It was fun at the beginning, I was young, had time, I was a “LFS” guy, always recompiling everything and all, and it was time consuming, and boring, and slow at the time!!! Then I basically use Debian (Ubuntu, Mint, now MX for 6 years at least) for 20 years… it works, I’m ok with it.

Yes I tried Arch, the low level install, it reminded me of my LFS time, but now I’m an old coot and I don’t have time for this shit 😆

We sound like we have almost identical experiences. Except, while I do have some Debian kicking around, I just love Arch and the AUR. But I mostly use EndeavourOS ( Arch for people who don’t have time for this shit ).

Because I’m a software luddite that believe we peaked in design at BSD/Plan9, and most of the “innovations” of enshittified corporate mainstream distros (redhat userland, atomic/immutable environments, “universal” (unless you’re not on linux) package management) don’t impress me, and more often than not turn me away. I’m not saying software can’t improve, but when it comes to mainstream linux (especially redhat), innovation is always 0 steps forward 40 convoluted leaps back with bonus windows compatibility.

reliant on upstream sources

Not relevant to independent distributions, which I’d actually consider more of a problem with popular distros very often being forks (most often of debian).

Just out of curiosity, what distro do you use?

Or maybe, despite the question, you use BSD? ( which is cool if so )

Declarative system configuration is the killer feature of NiOS. Atomic rollbacks too. Versioning the whole mess in Git, too.

I’d say nix is hardly niche at this point (although I’m biased cause I use it a ton)

There’s even a termux fork these days that runs nix on droid

These days, it is totally feasible to have the best of both worlds with a niche distro that is exactly what you want and Distrobox with another distro to easily bring in any software that you miss. Distrobox totally solves the compatibility problem.

For example, you could have a MUSL based distro like Alpine or Chimera Linux as your host OS. Need software that does not run on MUSL? Just install a stripped down Debian image on Distrobox and “apt install” whatever you like.

A few weekends ago ( just for fun ), I installed Red Hat 5.2. Not RHEL 5, real Red Hat 5.2 from before the Fedora days. My idea was to build Podman and Distrobox on it so that I could get access to the current Arch Linux repos ( and AUR ). I got a bit lost in dependency hell and did not quite get there but I was close. I might try again sometime.

I too prefer big distros, but niche distros are usually big distros with small tweaks in the default config or installed packages. It’s Debian/Fedora/Arch slightly tweaked.

I don’t get “distros”

I can customize my system to my liking. There some popular bases but that is it

I used to think that, too. But even Ubuntu and Debian are very different operating systems now.
On the other hand, it’s all Linux under the hood, and almost all computing tasks can be done on almost any distro.

Finally, almost all distros exist because people choose to maintain them as a hobby without payment.
Who am I to judge whether they should pool their resources on fewer distros in their free time?
I drink and doomscroll in mine.

A Debian base is different than a Ubuntu base.

That still doesn’t change much

I have used Parabola GNU/Linux-libre exclusively on my main system for more than ten years. I like Arch Linux, but I do not like non free software.