@Codeberg

Very weak argument imo.

How are the servers for codeberg powered?

@s_levi_s Codeberg is running a single server (~130W) on renewable energy. We know that we can reach more efficiency, mostly because we don't benefit from scaling effects yet.

The difference is more like this:
- we do not encourage users to use more resources, because it would cost us more. Most competitors do the opposite (e.g. recommending the use of heavy CI pipelines), simply because it makes more revenue
- we do not spend any computing power on tracking and unnecessary data collection

@s_levi_s
- we do not live in a careless "enterprice" environment: We reuse failing server SSDs for our private use, we know that others regularly replace just as a precaution
- we do not spend excess resources on high availability, due to a simple 80/20 rule: 80% gain with 20% effort. We know we could add more spare servers, more sophisticated backups, replace hardware more often to avoid potential failures ... but we don't. It's a waste of resources (incl. our donations).

~f

@Codeberg
So the main difference is your claim to operate more energy efficient and waste less resources?

You are still using resources... what is than the problem with an AI assistant created following your standards?

@s_levi_s Our original argument was that we should improve society somewhat. Yet we participate in it, however, that does not contradict what we say, even if we were not doing all of these things.

The problem with what you mentioned is that it is completely hypothetical (the article explains it), similarly to cryptocurrencies! And that even if it wasn't: Wasting hardware and AI scraping the entire Internet (not all of which is powered by renewable energy) 100 times is much less sustainable. ^n

@Codeberg

Well, than I could just argue that Codeberg is wasting hardware, and that the benefits for society are marginal compared to AI. Cost/reward. Codeberg is only a very small improvement to society.

That is also the difference to crypto imo... AI actually has use cases.

@s_levi_s several things you're saying don't make any sense:

- you can't claim they're wasting hardware by ... not replacing hardware early, and reusing the hardware they *do* replace..? there's simply no room for that argument

- as for energy, the argument is twofold: energy isn't produced infinitely nor for free. even if codeberg uses renewables solely, ai would use energy and money to achieve this, and that's speaking only on the usage of existing models

@Codeberg

@xyhhx @Codeberg

My argument is that by existing Codeberg is using up hardware and energy. There is no way around it, even if they use renewables and reuses their old hardware.

It is just on a smaller scale.

Based on this, one has to look at the rewards of the energy usage to decide if it is worth it to run Codeberg or train AI, no?