It mildly terrifies me that a lot of things we think are natural are just things that were invented by American advertising agencies in the 40s and 50s
The nuclear family, diamond engagement rings, owning a motor car, etc are all works of fiction that we have subsumed into being part of our culture, instead of it being astroturfed by a bunch of skilled marketers
This fiction also depends highly on the decade (speaking for the last century):
Every time there aren't enough workers, women are told that they can also "do their part" (work in a factory).
And every time there are too many workers, women are told that they belong in the kitchen.
@yassie_j My wife's a home maker right now. I will tell her she's fiction.
Okay, I told her she's fiction; this was her reply:
"That's erasure of me and my choices as a woman; who would say that?"
Which I think is hilarious.
@yassie_j I mean you stated it:
"Even the idea of a woman being a homemaker while her husband goes out to work is, in itself, a fiction. "
So I wanted to tell my wife she was fictional because I thought it would be a gas. Her response was... cutting, to put it mildly.
@cobweb Oh no, I get it, I just think a lot of that shit rocks.
The nuclear family where you can all afford to live on one salary? That kicks ass. The car? Freedom to go anywhere? That's an easy sell, it wasn't dastardly marketers.
And the whole point about home making wasn't very solid at all - lots of people choose it because it's fucking great.
@cobweb You have multiple people in the thread saying that they're not rich and that they choose it.
Wouldn't that make it... not a media concoction?
@yassie_j @cobweb I mean, you're the one making the point that people are claiming it doesn't exist.
Multiple people say they're doing it just fine, and that it's a choice.
I guess in a deeper way none of this matters, it's just what we're talking about online. I don't see a deeper meaning to any of it; I had no broader point.
@Len0w0ThinkBad @yassie_j @cobweb
That's the thing I think would save Capitalism, actually. Every full-time job should be able to function as the head of a traditional household.
I think the animosity and political division we have today is because workers do not have a large enough slice of the pie.
Minimum wage workers are the lowest paid 1% of workers. I guess it only works for the 99% of the rest of workers.
@cobweb @Len0w0ThinkBad @yassie_j
Something like 55% of Americans own their homes. It seems to be working for quite a number of people?
I'd rather get that percentage even higher, but... is the system all bad as is? It seems to be working for a lot of people.
@girlmaya @Len0w0ThinkBad @yassie_j @cobweb For instance, I think people want "communal ownership" but they do not want to do "communal work".
For example, if you are permanently jobless, it's tough to take your position seriously about communal property if you're already unwilling to work.
There are tons of worker collectives out there. It's not illegal to form one; it's even encouraged. It hasn't taken the world by storm though...
@girlmaya I suppose we should include "defense".
There will never be a self-organizing anarchistic state because it could never maintain a standing army of sufficient size. It's also why self-organizing principles fail beyond a certain size (what works for a commune, doesn't work for a polis, state, or country).
Or are we saying these things take on a kind of emergent life of their own, beyond the wishes and needs of their populace? Interesting either way, lemme know.
@cobweb @girlmaya @yassie_j They're so actively suppressed, we're discussing them openly, multiple books are written about them, TV shows, world-famous musicians frequently discuss them. Very samizdat!
Mondragon in Spain is the only relatively large worker cooperative (that does "real stuff" - not a cafe or book store...). A handful of small science/engineering shops.
If this was a worthwhile organizing principle, why does it fare so poorly? It's all external suppression?
@havoc @cobweb @Len0w0ThinkBad you know that life expectancy in the US has dropped, right? Like, in the last few years? Children are getting shorter (due to malnutrition), there are more people who are in precarious employment, and the ratio between earnings and house prices is multiple times worse than it was even a decade ago.
If a country where children are poorly fed, people are dying more often, and the national minimum wage hasn’t changed since the release of GTA V is “working for a lot of people” then you must be the most un-self-aware person in the USA.
@yassie_j @Len0w0ThinkBad @cobweb I do not think anybody in America actually cares what happens to anybody else; it explains our gun laws, car sizes, everything - as long as people can afford to buy a house and go on vacations, nobody cares.
I mean, the prison industrial complex? We just collectively look at that shit and shrug. Pretty horrifying.
@havoc @Len0w0ThinkBad @cobweb lmaoooooo
Go back to using dial-up then, code monkey
@Len0w0ThinkBad @yassie_j @cobweb There are *already* worker cooperatives, in a number of industries and fields.
If it was a better organizing principle, wouldn't it have taken over by now?
There are some things that should be locally run and community owned - the power grid, last mile internet, etc. I'm hoping batteries allow us to disconnect from the grid; we've been less successful with wireless mesh networks though (sadly).
@cobweb It's a poorly formed jumble of thoughts which includes (incidentally) the total erasure of women's choices.
I don't think I missed the point - I don't think it has valid one(s).
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