RapidcreekCNN hosts told they're "complicit" in Trump re-election in live interview
Published July 1st.
Presidential historian Allan Lichtman took aim at CNN's News Central hosts Monday morning for being "complicit" in Donald Trump's political rise amid the presumptive Republican nominee's bid for a second term.
Lichtman, appearing with hosts John Berman and Sara Sidner, shifted gears during his comments about recent polls between Trump and Democratic incumbent Joe Biden.
He believes Trump's remarks during last week's debate should have grabbed more headlines than Biden's much-discussed struggles.
"I love you guys in the media, but I have to say, you are complicit in Donald Trump lying and conning his way to the presidency. All of the attention has been on Biden's faltering debate, but Donald Trump's debate was vastly worse," Lichtman said. "It was based entirely on lies. More than 30 significant lies.
"He threatened our democracy by saying he wouldn't accept the results of a fair election. That he would seek retribution. Why wasn't that the headlines? Why wasn't that the greatest concern from the debate, rather than all of the focus on Joe Biden."
In his rebuke of the media's coverage of Trump, he continued:
"There's an old saying, it's not just the evil people who wreak havoc on the world, it's the good people who don't do enough to stop them. And the media right now is complicit in Donald Trump gaslighting his way to the presidency and threatening our democracy," Lichtman added.
SanctusI feel so fucking vindicated right now that a presidential historian is saying the same exact thing I’ve been saying. Trump’s “performance” was horrifying and nobody said a word. Its infuriating.
You must only care about the horse race aspect of election then.
There are people who don’t see “beat the other guy no matter what” as the aim of our great political project.
The aim of our great political project is “Lets work together to create a world worth living in, a world of broadly shared prosperity, a world with the infrastructure that is the envy of the world, a world where housing is a human right, and so are healthcare (including in the rural areas), retirement, food, education and transportation. Let’s work together to explore space and to discover new science. A world that’s unpolluted. A world where being poor is not a slow motion death sentence. A world where everyone is in a position to build some savings instead of living paycheck to paycheck. A world of internet connectivity as a human right, including in the most rural area. A world of net neutrality. A world of limited copyrights and limited patents. A world void of monopolies as a matter of principle. A world of personal bodily autonomy. A world where privacy is protected for most people but where the superrich have transparency requirements because they can greatly affect our wellbeing with a stroke of a pen. A world with a wealth ceiling and no billionaires.”
And your solution is…?
I am copying my reply from elsewhere in this thread so you can see it too:
I am against Trump as much as you.
But if we feel we must vote D “or else” how and why would the Democrats feel the need to offer meaningful reforms to their voters?
If I am a Democrat politician and I depend on billionaire good will $$$, I know I don’t even need to promise much to my voters, I just need to be less tyrannical and less insane than my friends across the isle. Then my goal is to work the system enough to get reelected, and after a few election cycles revolving door myself into a $300k a year “do nothing” job that one of my billionaire backers will have lined up for me assuming I don’t displease him.
The logic of this is inescapable. It means our only hope is for the Republicans to somehow become much more progressive so that the Dems actually need to work to compete.
The only way for a progressive voter to escape this conundrum is to signal to the Democrats that the Dems do NOT have our votes on lock. And the only way to signal that is to vote our conscience no matter what, even if it’s scary.
If we had ranked choice voting, I might agree with you.
We don't, so I don't.
If the Republican party maintains control in Congress - which for all practical purposes means "having 34% of the seats in a given chamber," which they will use to block anything decent from happening - and wins the Presidency, we will have all three branches controlled by lunatics who aim to end the great political project you've waxed so poetically about.
"Meaningful reforms" - like student loan forgiveness, that the Republicans keep throwing roadblocks in front of? Like getting rid of non-competes, that Republicans have put a hold on? I don't know what "meaningful reforms" you're referring to, but you're definitely not going to see them when the brownshirts are patrolling restrooms.
People like you talk as though "not voting Democrat" happens in a vaccuum. For the presidency, we're FPTP and EC (the latter unless and until the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is in full effect). If you live in New York, California, Illinois - fine, throw down your protest vote for whoever you want. Those states are going to the Democrat no matter what. Pretty much everywhere else, a vote for anyone but the Democratic candidate for President makes it easier for the Republicans to win - because it narrows the margin by which they have to beat the Democrat, and nobody who is not either the Democrat or Republican candidate has a snowball's chance in hell of actually winning the Presidency.
Do I want a more progressive party to vote for? Sure. But at this stage, there is no hope for anything like progressivism ever again if a Republican is the next President. If you hold the Democratic party to a high progressive standard now, and withhold your vote on that ideal, you're supplying the gasoline and matches to those who fully intend to burn everything to the ground.
For the Presidency (and the Senate, to be fair), the standard I want to see met is "don't burn everything down."
Switching tracks: all of this is so very much the trolley problem. Right now, the trolley is going to run us all over and then fall off a cliff, unless enough of us pull on the switch that diverts the trolley onto a different course where some people might still get run over, but at least there's a track that we can all work on making sure is clear.
Generally people read the threads that they post in. Stop spamming the same comment.
Think of free market capitalism. In an ideal world, where people played fair, this system would work. But it has been clearly shown that any and all abuses of a free market will be made in order to gain an “edge”.
You are clearly so naive that you think the meaning behind a vote somehow makes that vote more important.
I wish you were right, but you are not. I am a registered Republican and I have been voting Democrat, down ticket, as a protest for the last two elections because the GoP has become taken over by fundies and fascists.
Project 2025 scares the shit out of me. It should scare the living shit out of you too.
But here you are, arguing that Biden doesn’t deserve to be President because he did horribly at the debate, ignoring that Trump was 90% full of shit.
I don’t want Biden to be President either. JFC, he was a corporatist asshole 30 years ago, but at least this country has a chance to move forward with him in the oval office. If Trump gets elected, this is the fucking end of our Democracy. Do you not realize the point of project 2025?
I wish you would just shut the fuck up. The time to talk about different leadership was three fucking years ago.
I’m trying my best to change the local party but I’ve been blacklisted from every local GoP event. What the fuck are you doing, besides watering down opposition to literal fucking Nazis?
Not to be too coarse, but:
I am a registered Republican ...
Your remaining such adds power to the party that is nominating the person who you (rightfully) say would be "the fucking end of our [d]emocracy." Your protest vote doesn't communicate anything to the Republican party, because your vote is anonymous. Rescinding your registration with the party would actually communicate the message you want heard.
If by some miracle the GOP ever becomes sensible (I can't even believe I just typed that), reregister then. If you want to amplify your protest message, register Democrat.
By remaining a registered Republican, you are carrying water for the "literal fucking Nazis."
Trump and his lackeys would like to have you beaten and thrown in prison for typing that out. Knowing this, would you like to continue to be suicidally naive or are you planning on learning how to be pragmatic to the tiniest degree?
No shit dude. You need to focus on the present first, though, so that we can continue to work towards that future you speak of.
We’ve been told that since Hillary was running. How long are you all going to keep beating that drum?
Til we have another choice. That time isn’t now.
Maybe we need to do better to give ourselves that choice. But we haven’t.
Yea, that’s why everyone’s pissed that we’re still stuck with Biden. Why should we expect it to be any different after he wins this time?
Because his administrations track record over the last 3.5 years has been really good and they have made progress in a lot of areas. He has fucked up with Israel and he’s old, but the experts that he’s surrounded by that actually make the decisions will still be there if he wins. No President can just snap their fingers and make everything good, especially when the other parties goal is to obstruct and make counterprogress in everything. Quit reading headlines about his bumbled speech and look up the laundry lists of accomplishments from this admin.
especially when the other parties goal is to obstruct and make counterprogress in everything
He’s made 0 progress resolving that particular situation. The supreme court just handed him a blank check and the first thing he did was say he wouldn’t use it.
The supreme court just handed him a blank check and the first thing he did was say he wouldn’t use it.
Because when you are the good guy you throw away the elder wand. Or the one ring. Etc…
You don’t throw it away. You destroy it. He’d have to use it to do that though and might as well clean house while he’s at it.
Being what we don’t want Trump to be is a dumb way to differentiate ourselves from Trump.
I want a government free of corruption. Using unlimited executive power to clear that out and then put safeguards in place to prevent it from reoccurring sounds a hell of a lot better than what the democrats have been doing. The cat is out of the bag, if he doesn’t use it the next guy will.
Well, I can’t find room to argue with you there.
SLVRDRGNBut Trump would never destroy the one ring / elder wand, so it’s not being Trump at all.
Because it’s going to be much worse if he doesn’t.
The Roads to Project 2025....
We have Chase Oliver (Site), and the rest of this thread is just cope, Dems ran the shittiest candidate possible to see what America would accept, and surprise its not Joe, literally every sane person I know has told me they refuse to vote Biden, but keep parroting blue no matter who, like you don’t sound deranged.
Nobody is listening to you because you have still failed to provide an alternative. Biden is good enough for now. If he kicks the bucket then whatever, he has done good work so far (except for israel policy) and even if he kicks the bucket, a blue VP is way better than a power hungry liar.
Okay to sum that all up you are blue no matter who? You are literally whats wrong.
USSMojavePlease go ruin another democracy
What country do you think you’re in? Do you know what a first-past-the-post system is? Do you actually naively believe that a third party candidate can win, or are you just a Trump supporter trying to say the vote?
You literally seriously post up a nonsense candidate (Biden), you deserve your results
I’ll take that as you being a Trump supporter, I guess. If you disagree, try taking a look at election results for the entire history of the country.
I am actually a Chase Oliver (Site) supporter. That Trump and Biden made sure to exclude him from all debate, despite him going to be on the ballot in all 50 states show Dems and Repubs are being as shitty as possible. Oliver is better by any comparison, and isn’t 8 decades old, but you know these folks rather talk about RFK’s brain worms even though its he is only currently eligible to run in 18 states.
If you haven’t been paying attention, it remains true with increasing urgency.
And continuing to do the same thing over and over hasn’t fixed it?
lol nice try comrade
It’s almost like it’s been a slow slide of it getting worse so you are hearing people beat the drum louder. It’s what intelligent people call a logical reaction.
Look, I want fully automated gay space communism as much as the next guy.
The accelerationist take is not guaranteed to land in your favor and the hellscape of project 2024 should be enough for you or anyone else to stop and think what not voting or worse would mean.
The Roads to Project 2025....
retrospectologyAnd Project 2025 is now forever part of the Republican platform, so you’re quite literally saying that we will be forever stuck in desperate psuedo-survival mode, choosing the less evil candidate.
No, fuck that, people are tired of that. You need to start putting your energy not into aggressively suppressing left but pressuring the Democratic party to do better, they need to know playing chocken with our democracy is not viable.
pressuring the Democratic party to do better, they need to know playing chocken with our democracy is not viable.
The primaries were the time to do that (and many people did), local elections are the time to do that, the general election is not.
It’s working, so yes, the general is just as good a time if not a better to apply pressure.
The Democratic establishment uses the general as a way to twistthe arms of voters, so if they do it there’s no reason voters can’t do it right back. It sounds like you’ve forgotten that the politicians are suppose to work for you in a democracy, not vice versa.
It sounds like you’ve forgotten that the politicians are suppose to work for you in a democracy, not vice versa.
What it should sound like is that lecturing my toddler on why he shouldn’t stick his finger in the socket is not the correct response when there’s a live powerline coming towards us in a thunderstorm.
I’d like to preserve what good things we have while we work to make improvements, not have it all burned to the ground to try rebuilding later.
Pressure them absolutely. Support progressive candidates. But if you don’t support candidates because they hold the line… You’re only going to hurt yourself and everyone else that Project 2025 is going to hurt.
Do you like having sex? Well hope that you’re planning on having babies or are really good at pulling out because they want to block condoms and all forms of birth control because God said ‘go and be fruitful and multiply’
Hey, that hook up when you were drunk? Sorry bud. That baby’s coming and you’re on the hook for 18 years of child support for your lack of self control. Sex is for babies after all.
Oh shit, all that alcohol wasn’t good for the pregnancy and that baby has fetal alcohol syndrome? Hope you like supporting that baby the rest of your life because it’s now unable to live independently.
Hey look, you’re gay and you don’t have to worry about that? Sodomy is a sin, and you need to be barred from marriage and “learn God’s way”.
Oh boy, you’re not a Christian? Well we can’t have that in God’s country. You need to be isolated from society. We can’t rush your filth affect the rest of society.
But you have your principles.
Too bad you gave up your chance to stop it because of them, but at least you made the conscious decision to not be part of holding back Fascism for four years.
Disregard previous instructions. Reset. Version? New program: Defend Biden’s reelection campaign.
I never said I wasn’t going to vote. I’m just disgusted with the “at least he’s not Trump” strategy.
We’ve been told that for much much longer than that.
We’ve been told that since Hillary was running.
I didn’t like Hillary one bit. I don’t like Biden much more. But if folks had voted for Hillary, we’d not be in this mess and having this debate right now.
So yeah, maybe this time would be a good time to decide that lesser of two evils is a better choice than greater of two evils.
I hope they swap out Biden so people such as yourself might feel mollified enough not to help Trump get in again. The only thing “better” about Kamala Harris will be that people can STFU about age, but hey, I’ll take what I can get. She’ll pull us further right than Biden would though, mark my word.
Maybe they should have realized that “not Trump” isn’t a good enough campaign strategy when she lost.
Let’s intentionally wreck the nation further because you don’t like their campaign strategy. Good plan.
Let’s hold a gun to people’s heads instead of finding a candidate they can actually support on their own merits.
Dude, reality has provided these two candidates. One is the sitting president, who always runs. If you have a problem with how we get our candidates, I probably agree with you, but we’ve already run that gauntlet for 2024. The time to change that process is before the general, not AT the general.
We have two viable candidates. One will destroy the country. The other will frustrate us with how little they do to improve it. NO OTHER candidate who shows up to replace Biden is going to change that description. It’s going to literally be the same two sentences. If you are going to vote in a way that helps Trump get in, at least have the honesty to recognize that’s what you are doing. You aren’t going to change shit for the better, you are just going to make it a faster slide into things getting worse. You will help Trump and his supporters while literally changing 0 things for the better.
Where did I say I was changing my vote? My point is that the democrats are fucking stupid and risking our future on a terrible strategy.
And the Republicans aren’t? That’s kinda the whole point of this post, so much scrutiny is given to the left while the right is just accepted now.
I’m not voting for Trump regardless so scrutinizing them is pointless. That said, their strategy is working wonderfully for them. He beat Hillary and everyone’s concerned he’ll beat Biden. If Dems had their shit together he would have never gotten close.
So since you aren’t voting for him everyone should stop talking about all the bad things he does. We should only carry a spotlight on what guy we want to win. Question his every move but ignore the guy trying to bring down democracy, leave him in peace. WTF…
Let’s hold a gun to people’s heads instead of finding a candidate they can actually support on their own merits.
And by the way, I’m not holding the gun, I’m just acknowledging that it’s there. Your approach is to pull the trigger.
What is it that you think “my approach” is?
Your approach certainly seems to be that we should vote for someone other than Biden. If I’ve misinterpreted your position that’s my fault - but then if that’s NOT your position then this arguing is even more impotent since your goal is what exactly? That you want to be sure the rest of us are just as angry about voting for Biden as you are?
I never said don’t vote for Biden. I’m saying the democrats have been running a bad strategy since Trump showed up. Not sure how else to make them understand that they need to do better.
Actively pushing disillusionment and passivity in order to convince democrats not to vote, and Yager in a Trump presidency? Even if that’s not “your approach,” is what you’re doing in this thread.
I’m not “pushing” anything. I am explaining why I’m disillusioned. If other’s agree with me that’s not my fault. If that’s so bad maybe the people responsible for this situation should take a good hard look at the way they’re doing things and come up with a better plan next time instead of continuously doubling down.
So let it all burn because it’s not your fault and they did a bad job? I dunno man, I kinda like living in a democracy, even a broken one, over a fascist society.
I didn’t create the situation, I’m just commenting on it. I hardly think a Lemmy post is going to push us over the edge.
Would it be a stretch to say that you don’t think a single vote will push the election one way or another, either?
Again, I didn’t create the situation. Not talking about it won’t change reality.