PugJesusJul 6, 2024

Republicans were cooler back when Marx liked them

https://lemmy.world/post/17294988

Republicans were cooler back when Marx liked them - Lemmy.World

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/17294985 [https://lemmy.world/post/17294985] > “Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.” - Abraham Lincoln > > “I am glad to know that there is a system of labor where the laborer can strike if he wants to! I would to God that such a system prevailed all over the world.” - Abraham Lincoln > > “The workingmen of Europe feel sure that, as the American War of Independence initiated a new era of ascendancy for the middle class, so the American Antislavery War will do for the working classes. They consider it an earnest of the epoch to come that it fell to the lot of Abraham Lincoln, the single-minded son of the working class, to lead his country through the matchless struggle for the rescue of an enchained race and the reconstruction of a social world.” - Karl Marx

Show threadbolexforsoupJul 6, 2024
Different people. Party realignment happened, so the current republicans are not the “political descendants” of the party that ended slavery.
Show threadEldritchJul 6, 2024

Republicans didn’t end slavery. Slavery was enshrined in the 13th amendment to the constitution by Republicans. They did free black slaves as a punitive fuck you to the Confederate States. But it’s not the same thing.

Also there was no realignment. Before civil rights both parties had deeply seeded bigots. Democrats with their Dixiecrats. And Republicans with their fascists. The fascists literaly plotted a Hitler style coup just a few years after his failed. In the early 1930s. Look up the walstreet putsch.

What there was, was a distillation. Democrats got to civil rights first. Winning outsized support from black Americans. And leaving Dixiecrats fleeing the party. Republicans having missed out on being the ones to pass civil rights, took the consolation prize. And for the last 50 years has been the party of bigotry, white grievance, and fascism.

Show threadPugJesusJul 6, 2024

Republicans didn’t end slavery. Slavery was enshrined in the 13th amendment to the constitution by Republicans. They did free black slaves as a punitive fuck you to the Confederate States. But it’s not the same thing.

The language and actions of the Radical Republicans in the 1860s and 70s show a sincere desire to abolish slavery in all of its forms. The ‘exception’ granted in the 13th Amendment was intended to retain punitive measures for criminals rather than reconstruct a form of slavery. It didn’t work out as cleanly as was hoped.

Show threadEldritchJul 6, 2024
If it exists it wasn’t ended or abolished. Definitionally. I agree that there were some Republicans that felt that way. Not enough and not all. The fact that they held on to it for punitive reasons only proves my point.
Show threadPugJesusJul 6, 2024

I would argue that forced labor without profit motive or ownership of a person is so far removed from slavery as to not warrant the term. Community service is slavery under that definition (and, in fact, challenges on the basis of the 13th have been [unsuccessfully] leveled against community service), yet I think few of us would view some rich twat getting a hundred hours of community service for a DUI to be slavery in any form, even on a purely technical level.

Labor as punishment is not effective or worth keeping as a tool for ensuring the compliance of a free citizenry by its government, but I also don’t think that it is inherently slavery.

Show threadEldritchJul 6, 2024

Many of our prisons are privately owned. A profit motive is securely attached at this point at least. And I would argue it has been for a long time.

I 100% agree with you that it isn’t effective. I just don’t partake in the semantics on it. It is slavery. It’s called slavery in the amendment. That means it’s slavery. Just of a different kind.

Show threadAngryCommieKender
Just FYI, a very small percentage of our prisons are privately owned. Something like 20%. However, the percentage of jails that are privately owned is more like 80%
Jul 6, 2024 at 10:22pmWeb
Show threadtreefrogJul 7, 2024

And capitalists profit off of both because phone calls and commissary are monopolostic contracts awarded by the state. Often to corporations who in turn lobby for harsher jail and prison sentences.

Plus, prisons and jails don’t build themselves. And often the medical services are outsourced to corporations, rather than being county or state employees.

Incarceration is big business. It doesn’t really matter who owns the prison or jail.

Show threadTodd BonzalezJul 7, 2024

20% is still 100% too many, and it doesn’t matter if the prison is publicly or privately owned, or if the labor is profitable. Forced labor while in another’s custody is slavery. It doesn’t matter if it’s the government that owns you. It doesn’t matter if they are losing money on your labor. It doesn’t matter if you are guilty of a crime. The definition of “slavery” is very straightforward.

Anyone arguing otherwise is arguing in favor of slavery. There are no acceptable defenses for slavery.