kinttachJun 22, 2024

I’ve been locked out of PayPal for years because of their mistake

https://lemm.ee/post/35276654

I’ve been locked out of PayPal for years because of their mistake - lemm.ee

About 3 or 4 years ago PayPal added the option to buy cryptocurrency, which I thought I’d try. (Dumb idea 🙄) Part of the sign up process was glitched. I retried and clicked submit one too many times, I guess. Now I’ve been unable to use PayPal for years. They blocked me because THEIR SITE was broken, but the web page essentially accuses me of being a criminal and asks for my bank records. No way in hell. This was just for me to pay others. I can only imagine how awful PayPal is if you are a vendor. Fuck PayPal.

Show threadMeatsOfRageJun 23, 2024
I haven’t used PayPal in over 10 years. Why don’t you just leave the service?
Show threadaccideath
Because it’s convenient for paying online (one login instead of having to search my debit card and also, if I got scammed, there’d be another layer of protection for me) and it’s convenient for sending money to friends when we order pizza together or sth like that. What’s the alternative?
Jun 23, 2024 at 8:55amWeb
Show threadrobiganJun 23, 2024
Bitcoin? Ether?
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
Really? Crypto? For one, I know almost no online shop that takes crypto, almost no person I’d send money to has crypto and I don’t want to own crypto either since it’s rather unstable…
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
Price Crypto at the one-year simple moving average, and the volatility stops. I personally use crypto all the time and make my budget using the one-year simple moving average and it completely eliminates the issue with the volatility because that average takes a very long time to move.
Show threadSummzashiJun 23, 2024

Cool, let’s say your average per year is a value of 50?

Meanwhile in the real world; apple costs 1 in january and 100 in december.

But yeah bro that yearly average.

You crypto bros are like a cult.

Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
You have a nice day too.
Show threadFlying SquidJun 23, 2024
Better than back when they were saying we’d all be paying for our groceries with Bitcoin in a few years. And every time I pointed out that I wanted my milk to be the same price today as it was yesterday and tomorrow, they got mad.
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
Still, I don’t know any non-shady online shop that takes crypto.
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
Gratuitas.org sells premium grade coffee for Monero. You can also look at monerica.com. There are absolutely tons of legitimate businesses that accept crypto. Actually, when it comes right down to it, it makes a whole lot of sense to accept crypto because the transaction fees are so damn low that businesses save a ton of money over credit card transactions.
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
But why should I base my shopping habits around a currency/platform when I could just use one that almost everyone takes. When I want to order off a random online shop, I do not want to think about whether they’ll even take the money I have.
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024

Fair enough, I’ll be the first to admit that it takes work in order to use it. I’ll give two reasons. One is a monetary, and one is not.

Reason 1: If we are right, and 15 years of data shows we at least have a point, then you would be an early adopter and very likely end up very wealthy.

Reason 2: You can buy anything from anyone, anywhere, in the world at any time without permission. And it’s guaranteed to be irreversible in 20 minutes.

Show threadahornsirupJun 23, 2024

it’s guaranteed to be irreversible in 20 minutes

How is that a good thing? I want to be able to chargeback if I don’t get what I ordered.

Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
That’s what multi-signature escrow is for. You deposit money into an account and you have one key. The vendor has one key and a third key is given to an arbitrator and at least two keys must sign the transaction in order for it to be completed. If the vendor sends you your product and you are happy with it, you sign the transaction and the vendor signs the transaction and the vendor gets the money. If the vendor does not send you what you ordered, you talk to the arbitrator and the arbitrator listens to your case and the vendor’s case and makes a decision.
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024

then you would be an early adopter and very likely end up very wealthy

So it is speculative.

You can buy anything from anyone, anywhere, in the world at any time without permission

And should I feel the need to buy something from somewhere I need permission for, I will consider getting some crypto. Haven’t had a situation yet where cash didn’t suffice though.

Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024

I feel it’s speculative something like electricity was speculative in the early days of electricity when people were doing it wrong and burning down their houses and people laughed at electricity like who would ever want that and now we can’t really live without it. I will agree, cash is a bearer asset and untraceable and therefore is very good. The only real problem with cash is that it’s based on the monetary policy of the governmyth that issues it. They make bad decisions and you suffer for it.

Edit: That and it’s kind of hard to stuff cash bills into my computer and get them to come out on the other side halfway across the world.

Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024

Don’t get me wrong, crypto definitely has its uses. But other than national or international transactions that I‘d prefer to be untraceable, from a European perspective, it seems to be too unwieldy for day to day use. At least for the foreseeable future.

I use PayPal because it quicker and easier than grabbing cash from an ATM or to pay online. I use Apple Pay, because it’s quicker and easier than searching my wallet. Crypto would ad at least a step or two to any of those processes. It’s neither quicker nor easier.

Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
And that’s a totally legitimate viewpoint. I am using it and helping to smooth out the edges so that when you are ready to use it, you will be able to and have the experience that you expect to have. I am willing to put up with the rough edges and difficulties now in order to make your life easier in the future.
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
Fair. That’s partially why I use Linux while most people are still stuck with Microsoft.
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024

But why would I use Linux when Windows comes pre-installed when I buy the computer and I don’t have to use the command line? /s

I’ve been a Linux user since 2010 and wouldnt dream of using windows as a daily driver ever again. If you are capable of running Linux, you are more than capable of using crypto. Whether you choose to or not is your own decision, but you are capable of doing so.

Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
Once Linux is up and running it’s up and running. If I want to use crypto I have to go out of my way to use it for every transaction. I switched to Linux once Windows got more annoying than Linux was.
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
Which just means we need to continue to simplify the interfaces for crypto. That way, when OP is locked out of their PayPal account, they will just decide to say fuck it. I will use crypto because it’s easier than dealing with getting my PayPal account back. Make using crypto simple enough that people would ask themselves why take the risk in using the legacy financial system when my money could be confiscated at any time for any reason with no explanation required.
Show threadrobiganJun 23, 2024
Maybe for you, but there are large parts of the world that are relying on crypto such as the African region which for them has been a game changer as an alternative to their unstable currencies.
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
That is legitimately great. Doesn’t make it a good or even viable PayPal alternative for me, a European, though. Or even a viable alternative for the Euro.
Show threadTar_AlcaranJun 23, 2024

Price Crypto at the one-year simple moving average, and the volatility stops.

What? No it doesn’t, you’re just shifting the volatility from your pricing to your consumption.

Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
And that’s fine because you will always buy your requirements such as food, water, shelter, and transportation no matter what the price is. But you don’t need that new Xbox right now. It keeps prices steady, which is what people expect from a currency. And the more people who do it this way, the lower the volatility will become because more people are using it.
Show threadindepndntJun 23, 2024
The elasticity of demand is not static.
Show threadrobiganJun 23, 2024
Sounds like an addoption problem for you. The question asked what other alternative there is and cryptocurrencies solve that problem. Simple as that
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024

They don’t. They could maybe. But I want an easy solution to transfer money to people and pay online. Crypto is not that solution because I cannot pay with it in most online shops and I cannot send money directly to other people. The money has to be exchanged to some arbitrary other currency.

Unless everybody used crypto as their main currency and everybody used the same cryptocurrency at that, it’ll always be an extra step, subject to fluctuations in exchange rate and possibly fees/taxes. As long as that’s not the case, it’s not an alternative. So yes, it’s an adoption problem but one that isn’t realistically solvable any time soon

Show threadexplodicleJun 23, 2024
This doesn’t solve the adoption issue, but you can use “stable coins” like DAI that are pegged to the dollar.
Show threadCryophiliaJun 23, 2024
Venmo, Google pay, apple pay
Show threadSomeLemmyUserJun 23, 2024
All data sucking big corporate leeches. I wish giropay would take off more
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024

No one I know has venmo. Most people I know wouldn’t even know what venmo is. I’m not even sure it’s available here in Europe. I believe it actually isn’t, can’t find it on the AppStore.

And Google pay and Apple pay are nice and I personally use them but I’m not always on a device that supports them, I’m not always on shops that support them and I know a lot of people who don’t have credit/debit cards, only giro cards, and those usually aren’t supported either. And, at least in Europe, you cannot send money to friends via Apple Pay or Google pay.

Show threadAlborlinJun 23, 2024
In EU, you need to use PayPal at all.bank transferes are instant, banks provide disponible debit cards , you can use Google pay Almost anywhere, which keeps your Privacy. Where is that you NEED to use PayPal in EU?
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
Instant bank transfers cost me 49ct each and for most people I know it’s similar. PayPal is free. And I already use Apple pay, why would I use Google pay on top?
Show threadWIZARD POPE💫Jun 23, 2024
Does you bank have an option to send money for free? Mine does l. You just download their virtual wallet app and you can send instant transfers for free from that app to anyone that uses the same service. And most banks here offer it. They call it FLIK and it is really convenient.
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
I can send money for free but only within 2-3 business days or to accounts at the same bank. Instant transfer to different banks costs 49ct
Show threadWIZARD POPE💫Jun 23, 2024
Ah that kinda sucks
Show threadCryophiliaJun 23, 2024
Time to switch banks?
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
That’s not uncommon here, though, unless you pay for your bank account.
Show threadAlborlinJun 24, 2024
Revolut, n26 try any bank whicubisbgood in online or the BIGGER names mostly has instant transfer, in my experience its the middle of road banks that are taking time .
Show threadSummzashiJun 23, 2024
I use PayPal for their dispute feature. Bank transfers using ideal are usually final, while PayPal will charge back most of the time until the dispute is resolved. It gives you a much better position as a consumer to deal with shady companies.
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
Monero
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
So, crypto?
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
Absolutely. It is absolutely the future of finance.
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
I know one person who owns crypto, no shops that take it and I know of too many people who speculate with it. If it is the future of finance, that future is still fairly far away.
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
Well now you know two people who use crypto and I use it as money. I don’t speculate on it. I buy my groceries and pay my cell phone bill and pay my insurance with it. I recently bought a Taylor Swift album with it as well.
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
I don’t think I could buy my groceries with crypto if I wanted to. What supermarket takes crypto? My phone provider wouldn’t either and my insurance is deducted directly from my paycheque because that’s just how it works here.
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
Instacart has giftcards you can buy with crypto and so does my cell provider. Sure, you absolutely could say that they don’t accept it directly, and you would be right. However, I still get my groceries in my refrigerator, and I still get service on my cell phone. So, at the end of the day, does it matter?
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
It’s an extra step. Two extra steps actually. I can go to the store and pay or I can exchange official currency to crypto and then exchange it again to giftcards. It’s good that the possibility exists, since it’s de facto untraceable but it’s inconvenient, slower and frankly unnecessary for most people.
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
That’s true. Once people start getting paid in it, that’s when it’s really going to take off. I don’t think a majority of people will be paid in it until such a time as their national currencies start to hyper inflate. Ask a person in the United States, Canada, or Europe, if they would want to be paid in crypto, and the vast majority would say no. Ask a person in Zimbabwe, Argentina, Venezuela, Lebanon, etc. If they would like to be paid in crypto, and I’ll bet you’ll get a whole different answer.
Show threadaccideathJun 23, 2024
And then, who says what crypto will be used? Bitcoin, Etherium, Monero, Dogecoin, any of the other dozens?
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
In most cases, it will probably be Monero or Bitcoin, primarily because those are proof of work, which means you actually have to put energy into it if you wish to break it. Keep in mind that once you have any crypto, it is extremely easy to get from that crypto to any crypto you desire. So even if your employer paid you in a crypto you did not like, it would be extremely easy to switch it into the crypto you do like and wish to use. I don’t use Bitcoin for example but I would absolutely take a job that paid me in Bitcoin and then I would immediately take that and convert it into Monero and I would use that and it would take me very little time to do so.
Show threadgnygnygnyJun 23, 2024
Nano is great cause there is no fee
Show threadPasserby6497Jun 23, 2024

And how often do you end up paying more on real money due to the delay in transactions or awful gas fees for your transaction?

Crypto being a common currency is about as likely as Gary Johnson winning the presidential election. The average person is going to take up crypto as much as they use Tor. Both have their uses, but neither one will ever be mainstream.

Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024

I think that’s the fundamental disconnect. You may not see it as money, where I do, since I can buy the things I need to survive with it. And I can buy the things that I enjoy with it, which makes it money. Fees have never been a real problem. I mean, 1 US cent for a transaction is nothing

Edit: You and I would be unable to make a trade because we cannot agree on what is valuable. I do not value fiat currencies and you do not value crypto.

Show threadPsychadelligoatJun 23, 2024
And you don’t see how your comment is one of many reasons crypto isn’t the future of money?
Show threadshortwavesurferJun 23, 2024
Honestly, no. The only money we’ve had in the past that even compares is when we were actually using gold and silver. The problem with those though is that they cannot be stored or sent digitally without the help of a third party whom you then have to trust. Crypto is the future because it has the same value whether you’re in Caracas or Chicago or London or Moscow. It can be transferred anywhere in the world in seconds and settles within 20 minutes, not three business days or more such as the banking system. It is a bearer asset that nobody can take away from you without force and no government can inflate away and leave you poor.
Show threadPasserby6497Jun 23, 2024

It is a bearer asset

Meaning your money can be stolen and it’s gone forever unless you convince them to return it

that nobody can take away from you without force

Unless your wallet’s password is cracked, then you’re fucked and have no recourse. There have been so many issues with wallets generated with a bad algorithm that allows people to break your phrase easily and leave you without anything. And that’s not even getting into hot wallet issues where you get rug pulled and they steal all your money or you decide to give your money to someone like SBF and the whole exchange does down.

There are so many examples that disprove this statement that it’s honestly hilarious.

and no government can inflate away and leave you poor.

No, instead you can get left poor by some scam you fell for and have even less recourse to get your money back than if it was the government.

Show threadPasserby6497Jun 23, 2024

You may not see it as money, where I do, since I can buy the things I need to survive with it.

Can you go to a random store and buy food or goods? Can you send it to your landlord for rent? No, only a small sunset of orgs take it, because everyone else understands that shit like transaction delays and inconsistent gas fees means it’s impossible to effectively run a business on monopoly money that doesn’t have a set worth.

You can consider it to have monetary value, and I do insofar as you’re playing with an unregulated security that should be taxed, but it’s not money in that you can buy an arbitrary good for sale. You’re playing with monopoly bills that someone will agree to pretend is real money, but most businesses will laugh you out of the building and tell you to come back with real money. Because crypto is just a financial asset that people give monetary worth, but it isn’t money.

Show threadPasserby6497Jun 23, 2024

And Twitter is absolutely the future of social media!

See, we can all post statements that are clearly detached from reality and entirely incorrect.

Show threadHeyJoeJun 23, 2024

Where I am from everyone used Venmo… I never wanted it, I had PayPal forever due to ebay I think in the 2000’s so why did I need another service that did the exact same thing as PayPal and it’s even owned by the same company! Sadly, I lost that battle and caved. Idk why everyone said let’s use venmo or why it got big, but I’m stuck out of convenience for others now.

Personally, I love Zelle the most since it’s a direct transfer from bank account to bank account and available immediately without the 2 day wait like the other services.