librejoeAny lemmies that are politically neutral?
No - there is no such thing.
AsidonhopoYou could always start this if you can’t find it, could be interesting? c/middleground?
No, because it goes against some of the rules alot of the lemmies have of they take a post out of context. I don’t agree immigration and I don’t agree with transgenders. I don’t hate them though. I’d still get banned for that
You repeating “I don’t hate them” over and over while at the same time attacking trans people at their core sounds a lot like you’re either lying to yourself, or you’re purposefully trying to misdirect because you know it’s an unpopular position. Either way, it sounds like you need to do some self discovery.
I don’t make comments for popularity, I make comments because I want to have a discussion.
There’s at least some parts of the lemmy community where those views are acceptable even if generally they’re frowned upon in the wider community. Maybe [email protected] ? The hilariouschaos instance seems relatively err… libertarian in their approach to free speech but still is widely federated to other instances. Not speaking from experience as I’m not subscribed to any of their communities but that was the impression I got.
Regardless of our current differences of opinion on transgender folks and (most kinds of) immigration, and the differences between you and the lemmy community at large I’d like to think it’s a big enough place that you’ll be able to find room here for respectful discussion, or start a community of your own on an instance where it can happen.
Everything is political, even the desire for an apolitical space.
I understand, but maybe I should have said “neutral moderation to an extent”
NighedIt’s extremely had to be politicals neutral for a global community.
The centre of the political spectrum in one country might be left/right in another.
Then comes the extreme ideologies, are they trolling or genuine? Is that opinion considered hateful in some countries?
It’s a complete minefield. Why would someone without an agenda to push even try? Most neutrals would just say ‘no politics’.
Really well put. Totally agree that once a community grows large enough there is no single mindset for every topic.
If by asking for a neutral place you are asking for somewhere that conservatives with hateful, childish, and dangerous beliefs that have no quantifiable basis in reality can go where they won’t be treated like children… shrugs
Not anywhere I will spend my time, conservatives can stay in their lame isolated pockets on the fediverse, the rest of the fediverse is for people who actually have functioning capacities for empathy and want to have adult conversations that adhere to reality.
Sounds like you’re trying to make this an isolated pocket in the fediverse with that hatred you spread.
Sounds a lot like this place too, honestly.
Not knocking people with similar beliefs hanging out together, but it’s wild yousay that and don’t see that in lemmy.
OpenStarsThere is a saying: “facts have a liberal bias”. :-) Some people ofc vehemently disagree.
Each instance is different, as is each community. Many do not follow their own rules, especially about “no politics allowed” but it creeps in everywhere. Tbf, modding is a hard job.
Though you can block communities that you don’t want to see in your feed, and even entire instances (it won’t stop people from them downvoting you or even commenting on your stuff, but it will stop notifications being sent to you when they do. Get to it via Settings -> Blocks -> Instance. Users and communities can be done similarly but it’s easier to just visit their page and hit the block button there. There’s a saying about that too: block early and often, for the sake of your sanity.
I don’t know about instances - there’s a lot to look at like lemm.ee, lemmy.cafe, reddthat.com, sh.itjust.works, etc. - but I hope this helped in other ways:-).
NOT_RICKThis post reminds me of an old adage I heard about driving. “Everyone that drives slower than me is an idiot, and everyone that drives faster is a maniac”
As others are saying, your middle ground is someone else’s extreme.
Well I was 2 day banned from Reddit saying I disagree with a ruling that was in favour with a transgender person and that I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.
I got a 2 day ban for harassment and abuse, appealed it as it was not, and then got a permaban.
I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.
What does that even mean?
From my perspective trans people just want people to stop weaponizing the government against them. It’s just the latest bs moral panic to keep people distracted on culture war nonsense instead of actually trying to change anything of substance for the better.
It means that social media and now some public institutions enable transgenders to not seek mental health support for their gender dysphoria, and continue to act out. It’s really sad and I want them to get help.
Don’t really see how you have come to that conclusion. Lots of institutions in conservative states are making it harder for trans people to get treatment rather than the inverse. Honestly this reads more like concern trolling.
I don’t live in the USA, but that’s why I’d never vote for them.
Ok, so what institutions from your area do you feel block trans people from getting medical care?
I never said that , I said gender dysphoria is being enabled instead of being encouraged to seek treatment.
It sounds like you have misconceptions about what the best practice medical treatment is for trans people. Allowing people to present how they desire and be their true selves is what alleviates dysphoria.
I thought there was a mental health component in the preparation/decision process prior to transitioning.
That’s like, 90% of it
So OP lives in a place where this isn’t the case? I understand being upset about that.
Lettuce eat lettuce“…that I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.”
Ah, there it is. Has the same vibes as, “I don’t have a problem with black people, just black culture.”
And what “ideals” are you taking issue with? You mean how trans folks want to be treated equally and fairly? Or maybe how trans folks want to raise awareness of violence across the world towards them? Or maybe how trans folks would like people to respect their pronouns, the exact same way people have been doing for centuries with nicknames and preferred names?
I’m talking about being able to discuss things like that without being banned to a certain extent. Example: I disagree with trans people “ok”.
I want every trans person dead “not ok, ban”
You can discuss trans issues all over the place. Trans folks and allies in thousands of forums, websites, and physical locations like diversity centers at universities will happily provide you with reading materials to learn about trans issues and larger LGBT+ issues.
What people won’t tolerate is bigotry and hate. You can disagree with trans folks about all kinds of things, just like anyone else in the world, but nobody is going to tolerate you questioning their identity or whether or not they should have the same rights as anybody else.
The fact that you keep treating trans folks and their views as a universal collective means one of three things:
If it’s the first, the you’re a bigot who doesn’t think trans folks should be treated fairly and equally in society.
If it’s the second, you’re also a bigot and just trying to hide it.
If it’s the third, you need to start reading and listening to LGBT+ content and learn about social issues from them and their lived experience. Go to a site like glaad.org and start reading there. You can also go to your local library and ask for the LGBT+ section, they will usually have materials and content there that will be informative. Also, any major college/university will have a diversity center or club, go there and ask them for good starter material for getting informed on LGBT+ issues.
Thanks for the response.
I don’t hate transgender people, what I do hate (I mean that word) is that we enable gender dysphoria and not help them get treatment for it. The way that we promote it, kinda bothers me as I see it as enabling behavior. I actually feel sorrow and pain for them, as they are the ones suffering the most with no idea what is going on inside their mind. I will note on the record, condoning violence, abuse or hate towards them. No human being who has not committed atrocities deserves that.
I do not dog whistle because I have no one to whistle to. I am not left wing and I am not right wing. I have no political label because I choose not to subscribe to tribal banter. Call me a modern Ricard Stallman.
So, the goal of treatment is not to simply reduce dysphoria. It’s mainly to address their many times higher rate of suicide. The treatment that has been found to be most effective is medical transition.
It’s not some cosmetic thing you can just go out and get. It requires doctors, and is very much considered a strong intervention only pursued when it is necessary, similar to having your stomach stapled for dealing with obesity. If you went to your doc and wanted a stomach stapling, there would be a lot you would have to go through first, to make sure such a drastic treatment was really necessary. Same with a transition.
The issue becomes then, how to treat these rare cases in our society after the medical intervention is done. Which bathroom, can they play sports, stuff like that.
I think that instead of both sides yelling at each other. There needs to be a discussion around this from both. When people stop talking to each other is when problems start to happen.
By “both sides” you mean the patient and their doctor, right? They’re the only two sides who should be involved in medical decisions.
You’re allowed to disagree, but you don’t get a say in someone else’s health.
Yes I do.
You are literally the “enlightened centrist” stereotype, and you are talking nonsense about trans treatment. Despite the vast majority of research showing that gender affirming care has extremely high success rates and almost all trans folks not regretting transitioning, you apparently refuse to accept that.
Worse yet, you are trying to frame your bigotry as love and care, the same way homophobic Christians claim they “love and care about gay people.”
There is no such thing as a “politically neutral” position. That would imply that there is some perfect center between different views, as if political viewpoints can be narrowed down to a 2-dimensional line with “right” & “left.” All views have implications for society, and everybody falls into different varying categories and schools of thought, even if they aren’t aware of it.
Claiming that you don’t means either you are either very ignorant to political theory and philosophy, or you are deliberately being obtuse out of some false sense of moral/intellectual superiority.
Inform yourself, or if you’re a bigot, just be open about it and stop pretending you’re somehow magically above or outside of political/social biases.
I never said I’m enlightened, nor do I give myself that title. Why are people quick to label on here?
You’re not listening to anything I’m saying, so I’m not really interested in continuing.
I’ve been extremely charitable to you despite your offensive commentary with other users and myself, I’ve made a half-dozen points in my other comments and you haven’t engaged with any of them.
You’re either supremely ignorant or you are a blatant transphobe trying to pretend you’re confused and innocently curious.
I’ve given you resources to get informed, if you’re a genuine person you’ll follow them. If not, then your question of why you’re constantly getting banned from inclusive communities has been answered.
Thanks for commenting. Have a good one.
And he doesn’t consider gender affirming care as treatment!
transgender people get treatment for it all the time. For most of these, that treatment is called transitioning – medically, socially, or both. Sure some people may realize that transitioning isn’t correct for them and that is why there is so much gatekeeping. You can’t change it anymore than you can make a gay person straight.
There’s a big difference between “I wouldn’t choose that,” and “They should be prevented by force from choosing that.”
What you’re looking for is a hate group. You can advocate not just judicial rulings limiting the freedom of minority groups, but for disposing of the minorities once and for all. If that’s too extreme then you’ll just need to tolerate them. Be better than those that didn’t tolerate your hatred.
No I am not. I never said I hate transgender people. you are not putting words in my mouth
Remember that one free thinker will always help another attempting to break free. Whenever you’re ready, we will still be here, waiting with open arms.
There’s been no rulings granting a transgender rights greater than another. It’s been global news, the consequences of which would still be cascading through the judicial system.
So, when this transgender person was granted what may have been, after an arduous battle, equality in one situation, you disagreed.
What defines humans from other animals is complex communication and it’s derivatives. I need not know the transgender person, be transgender myself, or even have a gay friend to feel basic human sympathy and empathy for them. That’s the minimum human response: neutrality, equality. Anything less is animalistic hatred.
Bobby Turkalino“I’m apolitical” == “I have political opinions that are too extremist even for political parties”
NEAS F.O.T.S- Jasper riles up an apolticial man
So because I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders or immigration, I’m extreme? What?
𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍Hmm.
What are the “ideals of transgenders?” The right to exist, free from persecution? If you’re opposed to basic human dignity and rights which you’d be really pissed about it someone tried to take them away from you, then, yeah. That’s a fairly extremist view.
Immigration… well, I can at least understand the thought process. But unless you’re Native American yourself, then that’s just fucking hypocritical. I wouldn’t say “extreme,” just more “asshole.” Like, you got yours, and fuck everyone else trying to get what your immigrant great-great-grandparents did - it’s a kind of dick attitude. If you are of indigenous descent, then sure: you get a free pass on that topic, from me, at least.
We should be able to discuss these topics, and I’ll agree Lemmy can be pretty hostile when it shouldn’t be. Lemmy’s got its own Overtone Window and it can be rather fascist about enforcing it. However, if you approach a controversial topic at least attempting to come across as open to debate, and not just ranting about cross-dressing Mexican laborers taking your job - and really depending on the instance and forum you post into, you stand a fair chance of having a decent discussion.
You’re not going to get much love going into a feminist community whining about affirmative action is actually just sexism in disguise, no matter what.
I’ll just point out that many of is are aware of the paradox of tolerance: intolerance cannot itself be tolerated, or the bigots will eventually win. So if you’re feeling as it you’re getting slapped down about some topics, maybe consider it your position is one of tolerance or intolerance, and know that Lemmy’s aware of the danger of allowing a Nazi to sit at the table with you.
I don’t agree that we should normalize transgenders in society and should instead encourage them to seek help with their gender dysphoria. I am against immigration because it is artificially increasing the cost of living in my country and raising the unemployment rate.
BougieBirdieThe cure for gender dysphoria is gender-affirming care, which includes treating human beings like human beings and allowing them a place in society.
NutomicThose are pretty common opinions. It’s sad that some people cannot accept them.
The best treatment we have for reducing suicide in this population is gender affirming care.
What makes a man turn neutral?
Apathy.
Or was he just born with a heart full of neutrality?
Aren’t we all?
No, only the Swiss.
Ah, jä.
send_me_your_mommy_milkersChronic depression, bitterness, apathy
Switzerland was neutral! We need to be more like Germany - ambitious and misunderstood