Serious question: What’s the leftists position on police in the ideal but realistic socialist world? What would make ACAB irrelevant?

Socialism removes the fact that Police serve the wealthy, rather than the people, so this inherently means they aren’t class traitors.

There would be an expansion of social programs and services, better access to housing, and overall fewer crimes of desparation.

Socialism ends up causing all the problems you think it’s gonna solve. Name one time in history that it was successful.

What on Earth are you talking about? This is utterly vibes based.

Socialism factually does work this way.

In theory. Never works in practice.

China, Cuba, Vietnam…

Those are your success stories? Fucking laughable how stupid you are.

Pertaining to this meme and subject, yes.

Despite having less than a quarter of China’s population, the U.S. also has the highest overall prison population at more than two million. China’s is approximately 1.7 million. Globally, the U.S. accounts for 4% of the population and 25% of prisoners.

Some context:

Not only does the U.S. have the highest incarceration rate in the world; every single U.S. state incarcerates more people per capita than virtually any independent democracy on earth. To be sure, states like New York and Massachusetts appear progressive in their incarceration rates compared to states like Louisiana, but compared to the rest of the world, every U.S. state relies too heavily on prisons and jails to respond to crime.

For one, the US is a terrible example for incarceration rates in any case. If you look at Europe, the incarceration rate on average is very comparable and in many Western European countries like Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, etc. it’s closer to half that, sometimes even less than half.

And also, China has a comparatively huge number of political prisoners and some places in China (particularly where a lot of Uyghurs happen to live) have incarceration rates of more than 3700 per 100000.. That’s a lot higher than the US and more than double than even the US‘s incarceration happiest state Louisiana with ~1400/100000.

And even ignoring that, I wouldn’t use China as a great example for a socialist state either, for the reasons that they have a totalitarian government that doesn’t like it very much if you don’t like them and that they very much do take part in capitalism, being the worlds cheap production plant.

the US is a terrible example for incarceration rates in any case.

The United States leads the world in total number of people incarcerated, with more than 2 million prisoners nationwide (per data released in October 2021 by World Prison Brief). This number is equivalent to roughly 25% of the world’s total prison population and leads to an incarceration rate of 629 people per 100,000—the highest rate in the world.

The Uyghur situation is immaterial to the original comment of whether socialism works.

China considers the country socialist.

If the uyghur situation is immaterial then so is incarceration rate in general. Especially since there are a bunch of capitalist countries with a significantly lower incarceration rate than China.

And if they say they’re socialist it must of course be true. Authoritarian regimes have never misrepresented themselves ever. /s

Weird way to defend capitalism and the prison industrial complex.

The prison industrial complex (PIC) is a term we use to describe the overlapping interests of government and industry that use surveillance, policing, and imprisonment as solutions to economic, social and political problems. source

The Prison Index: Taking the Pulse of the Crime Control Industry

I‘m not defending capitalism, I’m just saying that China shouldn‘t be the system we praise as a good example.

The same way, I’m not defending the PIC or the US‘s incarceration rates. I’m just saying, if you want a positive example for how prisons should be run, don’t look at a state that currently runs concentration camps. Look at countries with actually low incarceration rates like the Scandinavian countries, Germany, Switzerland or the Netherlands, that place their focus on reintegration not punishment, don’t have political prisoners, treat their inmates like human beings and also generally don’t have privately run prisons that “need” to be profitable.

Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy. There is just as little ground for thinking that Social-Democracy can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. These organisations do not negate, but supplement each other. They are not antipodes, they are twins. Concerning the International Situation

What does that have to do with there discussion at hand?

ACAB because they police property-rights for capitalism, increasing inequality. Social Democracies seek to lessen the inequality through compromise with capitalists. Capitalism employs fascism to continue wealth accumulation. The world burns. Capitalism Can’t Solve Climate Change, so it must be discarded.

Sure, but what does that have to do with China being or not being socialist? Or are you saying socialism needs to be authoritarian?